The wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
Now Obama is praising the troops for the great gift they gave the people of Iraq.

OBAMA: Before coming home, I stopped to visit with our men and women who are serving bravely in Iraq. And first and foremost, I wanted to say thank you to them on behalf of a grateful nation. They've faced extraordinary challenges, and they have performed brilliantly in every mission that's been given to them. They have given Iraq the opportunity to stand on its own as a democratic country, and that is a great gift.

Yet he has bragged that he voted against the great gift.

Just a couple of years ago, Harry Reid was saying that this war is lost.

Just a couple of years ago, Harry Reid was saying that the surge would not work.

Just a couple of years ago, John Murtha was saying that our troops are murderers and cold blooded killers.

Just a couple of years ago, John Kerry was saying that our troops were knocking down doors in the middle of the night, and terrorizing Iraqi women and children in their homes.

Now, these same murderers and terrorists are the same ones who have given the people of Iraq a "great gift".

I guess it all depends on who is in office as to what worth the efforts of our military are held.
 

valkyrie

Well-Known Member
I don't understand why you are so against supporting the troops? You do NOT have to be FOR THE WAR, to support the troops. It isn't the fault of the military personnel that they are stuck in Iraq (and Afghanistan) fighting this war. To be in the military is to submit to the will of the government that sends you to fight (risking your own life in the process) for whatever cause they decide is necessary, even if that war is wrong.

Don't trash the troops, JP... this war is not their fault! :mad:
 

2minkey

bootlicker
the war was a dumb idea. it has been and will continue to be one of the most massive wastes of resources in human history.

that doesn't mean that US soldiers didn't do a great job.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
I don't understand why you are so against supporting the troops? You do NOT have to be FOR THE WAR, to support the troops. It isn't the fault of the military personnel that they are stuck in Iraq (and Afghanistan) fighting this war. To be in the military is to submit to the will of the government that sends you to fight (risking your own life in the process) for whatever cause they decide is necessary, even if that war is wrong.

Don't trash the troops, JP... this war is not their fault! :mad:

I KNOW you aren't a hammerhead so stop coming off like one.

I support the troops.
I support their mission.
I support the war effort.
I support the decision to go to war.

Every time a soldier walks through my store I stop them, shake their hand, and tell them "Thank you for everything you do."

I cannot fathom what you could have gotten from the thread header which would make you think that I do not support the troops, their mission, the war effort, or the war.

Try reading for comprehension next time ... PLEASE.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
the war was a dumb idea. it has been and will continue to be one of the most massive wastes of resources in human history.

that doesn't mean that US soldiers didn't do a great job.

Yeah, but a couple of years ago the Democrats were calling the soldiers names, making false accusations, and declaring the war lost.

Now, they are the givers of a great gift? Ya can't have it both ways.
 

Cerise

Well-Known Member
I don't understand why you are so against supporting the troops? You do NOT have to be FOR THE WAR, to support the troops. It isn't the fault of the military personnel that they are stuck in Iraq (and Afghanistan) fighting this war. To be in the military is to submit to the will of the government that sends you to fight (risking your own life in the process) for whatever cause they decide is necessary, even if that war is wrong.

Don't trash the troops, JP... this war is not their fault! :mad:


:rolleyes: My God. Trash the troops? Trash the troops??


Maybe he should've put quotation marks around the words "murderers" and "terrorists" for you so you could understand the sarcasm. :shrug:



Where was your outrage when members of the democrat party were saying these comments about our military? Hmm??


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"This war is lost and the surge is not accomplishing anything....."



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"And let me be clear, the violence in Anbar has gone down despite the surge, not because of the surge. The inability of American soldiers to......"



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"Study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq.'

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"Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."


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"That requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians...."



The left deliberately obstructed presidential policy and undermined American security for 8 years. And yet they were for the war (before they were against it.) That means you had 8 years to call them on it. :shrug:
 

Frank Probity

New Member
Some see skepticism, others see relief on the faces at knowing there is a president who will get them home. They, and many others, see a president who is not looking to invade another country without cause. They, and many others, see a president who believes in the military and the job they do without question but who also believes diplomacy, does in fact, work.

Sure President Obama is giving credit where credit is due. What do you want him to do, tell the troops who did exactly what their commander-in-chief ordered them to do, they wasted their time?

And yes, President Obama told the troops they performed brilliantly and gave Iraq a democracy. If anything, why aren't the same ones critiquing President Obama speaking to the troops with words of congratulations and pride, speaking out against the nefarious reasons given to send these troops in harms way for no logical reason. Americans were never told we were invading Iraq in order to make that country a democracy. But, we were told it was to find WMD's; and none have been found. We were told it was to destroy al Queda training camps. But none were ever uncovered. We were told it was to stop the collusion between Hussein and bin Laden. But no collusion had ever taken place.

So yes, Commander-In- Chief, President Obama instilled pride in the troops. And no, jimpeel, President Obama is not Senator Reid, nor Kerry, nor Murtha. Go hang your hat on something that resembles a rational argument rather than throwing mud against the wall and standing idly by waiting to see how much will stick.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
They see a president who would rather sit at a round table with the enemy and appease them, while surrendering, than to take the fight to the enemy.

He loathes the military as much as Clinton did.
 
They see a president who would rather sit at a round table with the enemy and appease them, while surrendering, than to take the fight to the enemy.

He loathes the military as much as Clinton did.

That just shows the complete lack of understanding of, well, basically reality! Just because his opinions about what this nation should be doing with our troops and our resources, does not mean JACK about how he feels about them. Hell I'll go so far as to say, that NONE of us "random jackasses" (because that's really what people on anonymous BBSs are) knows the man personally. For all your great intelligence Jim, and I'll grant you you are quite intelligent, you sure are fucking CLUELESS!

You see, Bush, and more importantly Cheney's attitude was when anyone offends, to first make them madder and aggravate the situation, then just force our will on them. The motive behind it was political and private financial gain for them and all their buddies. Moreover, since most Republicans cannot handle the economy, and for the most part are completely clueless about what is good for the United States, the only recourse they had to stimulate the economy was fabricate a war, and mobilize the people. Any grade school history student could tell you that few things can jump start an economy like a war effort.

The thing is it backfired on them and they got shown up for the fools and scumbags they are for those of us who were actually paying attention. Those that didn't have our head up our asses wailing about welfare and dead fetuses and evil liberals with socialized ideas like health care for everyone even the poor.....*GASP!*

You see, he has not even came close to bowing to enemies, and if anyone really thinks so, well you are a complete fool. Our enemies are a small handful of extremists, who were just aggravated, amplified and multiplied by Bush, and that regime's policies. What Obama is doing is trying to undo the damage that was done by those assholes. You see, he has the understanding, that in this age of instant global communication, and ever advancing technology, that we are now truly part of a global community, whether some dumb asses on a bulletin board like it or not. He is negotiating with heads of state, some who have been hostile in the past. Thing is we have NO right to interfere with them as they are sovereign nations. That last buffoon of a president doesn't even know the fucking meaning of the word! (And you really don't think Cheney was actually driving the bus?) If we continue to try to be "policeman" of the world (actually arrogant pricks and bullies who think we are the only ones that know anything, well us and our friends) it's no wonder that they began to hate us.

I know it's going to break your heart to hear this, but our military, and our power doesn't even have what it takes to whip a small nation in shape, let along force our will on it. Had we not blown the load in Iraquistan, who knows, but your fantasies about us being the good guys and the nights in shining armor and having all the answers, leading the world forward towards utopia is a load of crap! Perhaps after a lot of rebuilding and a big attitude change we can again be a great and positive part of the new world community, but making peace with our neighbors is a priority, whether you like it or not!
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
War is always good.

And the one this administration will lead us into,
the one Crazy Joe warned us about
will be the mutha of all battles.

Funny, they think that 9-11 is what
guaranteed ol' Bushy’s re-election and
count on it being what gets Hussein re-elected,
oh what a rude shock awaits heh heh
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biden.jpg
 

spike

New Member
Iraq is one of the dumbest wars ever started by one of the dumbest leaders ever.

Most of the troops have wanted the US to get out of Iraq for years. If you don't support getting out you don't support the troops.

Pretty simple.
 
Yeah, well there are three kinds of people in the world, when you are talking about this kind of issue, so let me just give you a little metaphor. Say you have a picnic table in your yard you like to have dinner with the family with, all is well until several times in a row one of the kids gets stung by a yellow jacket, and you notice the table is right on top of a huge and deep nest of ground hornets. It's a big yard and there is another nice tree on the other side of it that would be a really nice place for the picnic table, should you choose to move it over there. Here's what each type would be likely to do.

The hard left liberal, would perhaps stop eating outside until next summer. This is the guy who cares so much about the environment and the whales, and peace and love. The type who has sit ins and gatherings to talk about peaceful solutions, the granola crunching fool who never found his way out of the 60s. This is the guy who supports causes, just so people will see him supporting the causes. He is saying, look at me, am I not a fine example of all that is good in the world? Am I not one who makes a difference? These types either go to their graves this way, or, more often sell out to make as much money as they can in middle age. They purport and pretend to still hold to their old ideas, but we all know it's bullshit! In reality he lives his whole life out trying to impress others, but more importantly himself what a wonderful person he is. Yet the cruel reality, is that appearances had been so important to them, they forgot to actually live life and learn and grow, and the only damn difference they made was for people to look back on their deeds in history and either nostalgically, or regretfully and think about thinks like "Were people ever truly that stupid and pathetic?"

The realistic, practical, sensible person, who some so vitriolically, call indecisive, wishy-washy, can't make up their mind, and blowing in the wind moderates, would most likely figure the the hornets are pretty well dug in and they would drag the table across the yard and continue to enjoy their family dinners in their beautiful yard under a wonderful old cherry tree. Contrary to popular opinion, among these people their are democrats and there are republicans and their opinions vary, but for the most part, they look and see what works and go with it.

Then you have the hardcore un-bendable, inflexible, and stuck on old ideas proven time and time again not to work, yet they persist in it anyway, hard right conservative. The type who looks down from his soap box at everyone and feels himself superior, when most of the rest of the world sees him for the pathetic idiot he really is. That's the guy who is poking a stick down in the nest and trying to figure out how to kill that god damn hornets nest! He'll spend half the damn summer working on it and getting stung, while the family eats inside every night. But by god he will evict or kill those mother fuckers! What right do they have setting up a nest on HIS property?!? What right do they have to terrorize HIS family....

I think some of you get my point, while some of you will never get it and more's the pity. In the end if we are not flexible enough to adapt to changing situations, well we just become extinct. It's called survival of the fittest. I know which type I am, do you know which you are?
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
there's only 2 types of people period.
users, and used.
It usually not hard to tell the diff., for me.
The used are fed up now.
 

Frank Probity

New Member
They see a president who would rather sit at a round table with the enemy and appease them, while surrendering, than to take the fight to the enemy. He loathes the military as much as Clinton did.


It seemed to me when the troops greeted President Obama he was pretty well received and when he left, he was applauded with sincerity. My guess is, if there were any members of the military upset with the president for using diplomacy, they were not in the room but out looking for something to kill just for the helluvit.

And when it comes to sitting at the table with your enemies, there is nothing wrong with that. History has provided greater insight and success with diplomacy than has war. And at lesser expense to the United States. Seems like every time the U.S. tries to kick the bajezeezus out of someone, we wind up making their nation stronger while at the same time, more dependent on America and as time passes, more resentful of Americans.

Meantime, we feed those we wage war against while there are kids in America whose parents lost their jobs and neo-con's complaining we providing those kids with free school lunches is un-American. It might be different if the parents were unwilling to work, but in so many situations these days, the reality is, those parents are willing and always have, worked.

Maybe the people running around with their finger on the trigger need to relax a bit and see what diplomacy brings: They might see another side of the world today instead of one where there are goblins under every bed or in every closet. Not to suggest America needs be less vigilant, but it is easier to get cooperation through kindness than it is by slapping our enemies in the head. Not every situation needs be settled with a gun.
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
It seemed to me when the troops greeted President Obama he was pretty well received and when he left, he was applauded with sincerity. My guess is, if there were any members of the military upset with the president for using diplomacy, they were not in the room but out looking for something to kill just for the helluvit.

You obviously don't know about the tradition of the 'rent-a-crowd'. I've been 'voluntold' to go out and support the Pres for just over 20 years. Of course we applaud. To not do so would bring down the ire of our upper management...i.e. officers looking for that next big promotion.

Frank said:
And when it comes to sitting at the table with your enemies, there is nothing wrong with that. History has provided greater insight and success with diplomacy than has war. And at lesser expense to the United States. Seems like every time the U.S. tries to kick the bajezeezus out of someone, we wind up making their nation stronger while at the same time, more dependent on America and as time passes, more resentful of Americans.

Lets see...Spain...Germany...Japan...no longer threats, and not resentful of the US. Britain...Canada...South Korea...friendly...

Now that that is out of the way, lets look at this statement..." tries to kick the bajezeezus out of someone"...This is what happens when you fight wars for political gain instead of to win. What we have is a Congress who is unwilling to commit to a military response that is unfettered. In other words, we haven't had a war since WWII. Korea , and just about every action since, was a UN mandate.

Frank said:
Meantime, we feed those we wage war against while there are kids in America whose parents lost their jobs and neo-con's complaining we providing those kids with free school lunches is un-American. It might be different if the parents were unwilling to work, but in so many situations these days, the reality is, those parents are willing and always have, worked.

And where, exactly, in the Constitution does it mandate giving money to the non-working? In a war, you'd best do something to keep the enemy populace in check, or you'd wind up with massacres in every city. You win wars with bullets, you make peace with dependence.

Frank said:
Maybe the people running around with their finger on the trigger need to relax a bit and see what diplomacy brings: They might see another side of the world today instead of one where there are goblins under every bed or in every closet. Not to suggest America needs be less vigilant, but it is easier to get cooperation through kindness than it is by slapping our enemies in the head. Not every situation needs be settled with a gun.

You may be correct, but what if you get slapped first, and the threat of more slapping remains? Diplomacy is an amazing thing if done correctly, but diplomacy is never done correctly. Every war that has ever been fought has only been delayed because of diplomacy. If the parties are in disagreement, then they are in disagreement. If its something one side holds dear, then there is going to be a fight.
 
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