Some new info on the Pickens wind farm scam

[catocom]

USGS is the abbreviation for United States Geological Survey an official United States government agency charged with this very type of task.

I know that, and have about as much faith in them as fema, and the congress.

Does this agency not also advocate global warm?


You don't have to get upset jim.
you can't Make people think the way you do. You lead by example, and see who follows.
You, now are do what you have criticized others for.

I wanna hear what local water people are saying about it, in some of the
states where it lies.
Know anybody around there with some credentials of their own?

I'd like to hear it from someone who hasn't been lobbied.

 

[jimpeel]

You don't remember being downright silly and specious comparing a tornado to global warming do you?

"Try to stop a tornado; a hurricane; an earthquake; a tidal wave; a volcano. YOU CAN'T!" - Jimbo

I didn't "compare" a tornado to global warming. I compared the ineffectuality of humans to control their environment to the extent these GW nuts say we can. Please know the difference and try to read for comprehension.

But at least we got you to admit that humans can have an effect on the environment, albeit only when it's convenient for a particular rant. You're partway there though.

My stating "Even if it does it is so miniscule in the greater scope of things that it is entirely negligible." is not an admission of anything. It is speculative at best that "even if it exists", which I do not believe that it does, it is miniscule.

Keep sticking your head in the sand and fighting the good fight for environment irresponsibility and corporate greed. At least its' promising to see you concerned about some environmental issue even if it's only momentarily self serving in your larger irresponsible agenda.

And you keep marching lockstep with those who are trying to take your freedom, your property, your ability to make your own decisions, and who will dictate your every waking moment to live as they live not as you want. You will make a really great slave.

"Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you ...", to quote a noted patriot.

 

[jimpeel]

I know that, and have about as much faith in them as fema, and the congress.

Does this agency not also advocate global warm?


You don't have to get upset jim.
you can't Make people think the way you do. You lead by example, and see who follows.
You, now are do what you have criticized others for.

I wanna hear what local water people are saying about it, in some of the
states where it lies.
Know anybody around there with some credentials of their own?

I'd like to hear it from someone who hasn't been lobbied.

It was this part that set me off:

Wiki, ? come one

Name us several different science orgs that have studied this?

To reject the link based on it coming from Wiki was specious. Read the link and make a determination. I have little faith in much that is posted on Wiki but this subject was accompanied by numerous references to legitimate sources.

LOCAL:

North Plains Groundwater Conservation District

High Plains Underground Water Conservation District #1 (Texas) retrieved April 9, 2007.

Kansas Geological Survey information on the High Plains / Ogallala Aquifer

CREDENTIALS OF THEIR OWN:

"The Ogallala Aquifer" Manjula V. Guru, Agricultural Policy Specialist and James E. Horne, President & CEO, The Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture, Poteau, Oklahoma

All of those were in the original link and were available without my having to repost them. It is truly frustrating that I give links to information which is rejected based solely on a casual glance at the name of the source.

 

[MrBishop]

Try HERE for a detailed explaination on Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (1770-1831) and his philosophies.

Essentially, as used in my comment, the Hegellian dialectic goes thusly:

The authors create a "crisis" (thesis) for which they have a preconceived "solution" (antithesis); and when the crisis fails to manifest they take credit for their "solution" having prevented the "crisis" (synthesis).

By this scheme the authors gain monetary and/or political power via deception of the masses. Al Gore is a master of this philosophy. The Reichstag fire was a classic Hegellian dialectic in its perfect deception of the masses. Hitler gained limitless power from it.

An interesting interpretation of the dialectic, but not the only interpretation...*Added for clarity* and certainly not the most accepted. Try reading some Emmanuel Kant - you'll find that even Hegel attributes that dialectic to Kant.

Better yet, read some Habermas.

 

[jimpeel]

An interesting interpretation of the dialectic, but not the only interpretation.

Quite true. I gave the examples which support the dialectic as used in political scams.

 

[catocom]

so jim you think we should scrap every plan that comes up, except for drilling more?

No plan is going to be perfect, but this plan seems the most viable to get started.

I still think there's not enough info on how much water the pickens plan might use, but if it's a teaspoon, apparently people are going to holler the thing is going to be pumped dry.
That's a hell of a lot of water.

I just don't like to see problems made before they develope, based on
incomplete info.

 

[MrBishop]

Anything can be used in political scams In this case, the scam's are misinterpreting Hegel's propositions about defining an object by it's boundaries, but replacing boundaries (what something is not) with 'opposites'. It's a bad example and shouldn't really be using the term 'Hegelian Dialectic' to gain credit.

 

[catocom]

To reject the link based on it coming from Wiki was specious. Read the link and make a determination. I have little faith in much that is posted on Wiki but this subject was accompanied by numerous references to legitimate sources.

I disagree.
I can makeup stuff all day long, and present it as fact, with some legitimate sources, and spin them.
So a site's reputation, and operation to the truth are imperative now days.

 

[Mirlyn]

Water has been a fairly big deal around here. We're connected via the equus beds, and in efforts to keep the beds recharged, we (the city) have been pumping water back into the ground for over ten years.

Though it reaches parts of eight states, the Ogallala Aquifer is a smaller region within the High Plains Aquifer, which stretches further east into Kansas to the Equus Beds north of Wichita. It’s said that the water in the Ogallala is so vast that if spread out over the United States, it could cover the entire country with one and one-half feet of water.

But the resource is dwindling quickly. Research since the 1940s indicates that the aquifer’s water level declined nearly 10 feet a year, leaving some areas of western Kansas nearly depleted. In 2001, the Kansas Geological Survey completed a study that estimated the remaining lifetime of the aquifer at 100 years in some areas, but as little as 25 years in others.

Sophocleous noted the reason the aquifer is drying up is because the Ogallala has a very low recharge capacity – in fact, the lowest in the High Plains aquifer. As a comparison, Stover noted that the Equus Beds recharge is approximately 4-5 inches per year (partly because of that area’s more porous soils), but the recharge in the Ogallala often is just a fraction of one inch per year.

Most aquifers – the Ogallala included – form natural barriers, such as layers of clay soil. Stover said natural barriers may help people think of aquifers less as a "bathtub" (where a drain on one end directly affects the other end) and more as an egg carton (each "egg" sitting somewhat independently in a subunit).

http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/news/sty/2003/ogallala_aquifer031403.htm

 

[catocom]

yeah, see, we don't even know yet if Pickens plan has a reclamation part or not.

The plan sounds good so far, but there is a lot that still has to be panned out.

IMO to call this a scam though is at least premature.

The water is one concern, I understand.
I'm wondering what the other concerns are too though....any?

 

[spike]

I didn't "compare" a tornado to global warming. I compared the ineffectuality of humans to control their environment]/quote]

Exactly. Which is precisely how I used your comparison against you. Which caused you to call your own comparison silly and specious. Quite tidy how that worked out huh?

My stating "Even if it does it is so miniscule in the greater scope of things that it is entirely negligible." is not an admission of anything.

I was referring to your stance that we can have a profound effect on the water situation Jim. Talk about reading comprehension.

And you keep marching lockstep with those who are trying to take your freedom, your property, your ability to make your own decisions, and who will dictate your every waking moment to live as they live not as you want.

When did that happen? You just kind of make things up and then type them huh?

"Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you ...", to quote a noted patriot.

Lick whoever you want buddy, I'm all for personal freedom. Just don't involve me in any licking.

 

[jimpeel]

I didn't "compare" a tornado to global warming. I compared the ineffectuality of humans to control their environment

Exactly. Which is precisely how I used your comparison against you. Which caused you to call your own comparison silly and specious. Quite tidy how that worked out huh?

Of course it has to be silly and specious because the entire premise of global warming is silly and specious. Using absurdity to illustrate the absurd. You obviously have no familiarity with the concept.

I was referring to your stance that we can have a profound effect on the water situation Jim. Talk about reading comprehension.

Unlike the global warming premise, which cannot be documented, measured, or demonstrated outside of the realm of theory, the lowering of the water table within the region overlying the Ogallala Aquifer can be documented, measured, and demonstrated in real terms.

And you keep marching lockstep with those who are trying to take your freedom, your property, your ability to make your own decisions, and who will dictate your every waking moment to live as they live not as you want.

When did that happen? You just kind of make things up and then type them huh?

It already has happened. You were so busy posting specious crap here that you missed it.

Just go get in your car and drive away without your seatbelt on and see what happens. Do you have the freedom to drive without your seatbelt firmly in place?

Try smoking in your own apartment ands see what happens. There are already documented cases of people being told they cannot smoke in their own home.

Does your property lie within the realm where some company might want to build? The SCotUS has ruled that the authorities can take your property and give it to that company if it will glean more taxes.

You like the characters on the cereal boxes we all grew up with -- Cap'n Crunch; Pebbles; Snap, Crackle, and Pop; Toucan Sam; et al? Well we will be kissing them all goodbye soon as the blissninnies pressure the cereal companies to take them away because they pander to children. General Mills has already bent to their pressure.

What was that Obama said about our setting our thermostats? Well get ready for the government to start monitoring your energy usage. There has already been a movement in CA to put remote controlled thermostats in private homes which will be controlled by the government. You should be getting your carbon credit card in the mail sometime in the future.

 

[2minkey]

specious crap

another helpful and enlightening post by 2minkey.

 

[jimpeel]

another helpful and enlightening post by 2minkey.

Not the deadly snappy retort! I'm wounded ... ya got me podnah ... everythings ... getting ... dark ...

 

[2minkey]

cool. does this mean you'll be too dead to post any more sky is falling stuff?

 

[jimpeel]

cool. does this mean you'll be too dead to post any more sky is falling stuff?

That just goes to show just how ignorant you are. The sky is not falling. Everyone knows the Earth is rising.

 

[catocom]

if you two start smoochin' now, i'm leavin'

 

[spike]

Of course it has to be silly and specious because the entire premise of global warming is silly and specious. Using absurdity to illustrate the absurd. You obviously have no familiarity with the concept.

So you admit that your comparison was worthless. I'm glad we got that covered.

Unlike the global warming premise, which cannot be documented, measured, or demonstrated outside of the realm of theory, the lowering of the water table within the region overlying the Ogallala Aquifer can be documented, measured, and demonstrated in real terms.

Actually it has been documented and measured. Although I like your illogicall asumption that man can only have an effect on something if it can be documented. Just makes you wrong on two accounts.

It already has happened. You were so busy posting specious crap here that you missed it.

We just proved that the specious bit was originally yours.

Just go get in your car and drive away without your seatbelt on and see what happens. Do you have the freedom to drive without your seatbelt firmly in place?

I can drive without a seatbelt, i'll just get a ticket if I'm caught. I'm not stupid enough to drive less safely on purpous though.

Try smoking in your own apartment ands see what happens. There are already documented cases of people being told they cannot smoke in their own home.

I do smoke in my own home. No problem.

Does your property lie within the realm where some company might want to build?

No.

You like the characters on the cereal boxes we all grew up with -- Cap'n Crunch; Pebbles; Snap, Crackle, and Pop; Toucan Sam; et al? Well we will be kissing them all goodbye soon as the blissninnies pressure the cereal companies to take them away because they pander to children. General Mills has already bent to their pressure.

Oh noes! Not Toucan Sam!

What was that Obama said about our setting our thermostats? Well get ready for the government to start monitoring your energy usage. There has already been a movement in CA to put remote controlled thermostats in private homes which will be controlled by the government. You should be getting your carbon credit card in the mail sometime in the future.

Those would be designed to prevent widespread outtages. Which are bad.

However I'm not marching in lockstep with that or any of the other examples you mentioned. In fact I'm even against the current ant-freedom president that you probably voted for.

So it turn out your accusation was specious.

 

[2minkey]

Honest ... really ... you still don't get it? I know you are smarter than that but here goes.

Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) is the thesis. They made it up. There is no hard evidence that AGW even exists. Even if it does it is so miniscule in the greater scope of things that it is entirely negligible.

Demanding that the people of the United States change their behavior is the antithesis. That is their "solution" to the thesis. They glean power and influence through this ruse. The solution (antithesis) will have absolutely no impact on the thesis because the crisis (thesis) does not exist. They made it up.

The thesis will not manifest itself because it does not exist. They made it up. Their solution (antithesis) cannot have any effect on the thesis because the thesis does not exist. They made it up.

When the thesis fails to manifest, they will claim that the antithesis prevented it thus the synthesis is complete. They take the credit. They claim the power and influence and stature which they have gained as the saviors of mankind.

Get it? It is a classic Hegellian Dialectic. You can deny it if you wish but in that case perhaps a fresh reading of Part 4 at the link is in order.

Then, again, Part 9 at the link may shed some light.

the people you are quoting are idiots. they're desperately trying to mold something into their pre-(and ill-)conceived political truths. it's nothing more than masturbatory name-dropping. maybe they should have mentioned foucault and derrida, too! that would get all the postfeminist girls in the coffee shop all hot! oooh! sensational!

i think you might be a plagiarist. next time, you might want to mention where your wacky ideas come from. because no one who has a serious understanding of hegel would make the connection you did, and it's obvious you got the idea from the jokers you only later mentioned.

 

[jimpeel]

the people you are quoting are idiots. they're desperately trying to mold something into their pre-(and ill-)conceived political truths. it's nothing more than masturbatory name-dropping. maybe they should have mentioned foucault and derrida, too! that would get all the postfeminist girls in the coffee shop all hot! oooh! sensational!

i think you might be a plagiarist. next time, you might want to mention where your wacky ideas come from. because no one who has a serious understanding of hegel would make the connection you did, and it's obvious you got the idea from the jokers you only later mentioned.

I had not visited that site prior to my looking it up for your edification a few days ago.

My thoughts are my own; and I have been stating this very premise for several years. You likely do not understand the basic tenets of Hegel so try this which, by the way, fits my interpretation nicely. You will, of course, deny that; but who cares? This section was written with you in mind.

http://www.newswithviews.com/community_policing/community_policing.htm

The concept of the dialectic has been around for a long time. It is simply that of opposite positions: Thesis (position) (TRUTH: global warming which has been occurring naturally for eons - j) vs. Antithesis (opposite position) (LIE: global warming is caused by man so we must modify his behavior - j). In traditional logic, if my thesis was true, then all other positions were by definition untrue. For example, if my thesis is 2+2=4, then all other answers (antithesis) are false. George W.F. Hegel, the nineteenth century German philosopher, turned that concept upside down by equalizing Thesis and Antithesis. All things are now relative. There is no such thing as absolute truth to be found anywhere. Instead, “truth” is found in Synthesis, a compromise of Thesis and Antithesis. (Global warming fails to manifest; but the credit goes to those who came up with the "solution" even though the solution had no effect whatsoever - j) This is the heart and soul of the consensus process.

TRUTH: +1
LIE: -1
RESULT: 0