I have a dream - Black History Month

Each of those has may succeed economically.

The more economic status one has, the (assumed) better they are at their chosen field. Madonna must be outstanding & the Guess Who are only ok. (remember, this doesn't include the evil amongst us , marketing)
 
Sorry, but I still don't understand what you're getting at. :confused:

I don't associate economics with culture. They have some bearing on an individual's ability to produce and consume culture, but not necessarily. The library has all the books one could wish to read for free. Museums have free days, many cities have free concerts.

I have always thought of culture as the outward manifestations of social groups that share certain bonds. Whether it is flamenco or swing or ballet, it's all culture. It doesn't matter if it's Rachmaninoff or Eminem or the Beatles, it is someone's culture. Whether one has a larger gross than the other on a tax return has nothing to do with it in my opinion.
 
The economics are part of the culture.

example: Culture Club puts out 3(?) albums. #1 has no success & CC hasn't changed their status.
#2 is a smash hit. CC now sells more of #1, due to the success of #2 & more people enjoy their music. They have spread art among the masses. #3 sucks & CC breaks up because the people moved on.

All the while, Metallica puts out yearly albums that affect larger & larger audiences, building a base. They now have (x) number of albums, each more successful than the previous & they have been a mainstay for over a decade. Their audience has expanded & grown, as have they.

Who is the more representative of the culture? CC or Metalligreed? One builds a foundation on solid music, the other on marketing.
 
I understand that for you economics and culture are inextricably intertwined. This saddens me. I don't perceive culture the same way. Whether or not something achieves economic success and builds a large audience has absolutely nothing to do with my enjoyment of it. There are musicians whose work I enjoy far more than either of the two bands you mentioned. There are writers, musicians, filmmakers, gardeners, bakers, cooks, winemakers, sculptors, architects, composers, poets, actors, singers, etc etc who will NEVER become household names, but are valid and important elements in the cultural fabric. The fame and/or success someone achieves has NOTHING to do with the value of their cultural production (for me).
 
You are tying personal enjoyment to culture. Culture affects the large scale.

Everbody knows Michelangelo. He affected the culture, at large.
1/1000 knows Lichtenstein. He affects the rich & those involved in the art community, not the culture.
 
Culture IS personal. It can be a solitary experience or a large group event. The point being that for me, there is no one single over-riding culture in this country. There are niches in the niches. There is the culture experienced by youths in affluent suburbs, and the culture that those in economically depressed urban areas experience. Both are valid manifestations of the social groups those teenagers form.

And I'm uncertain how Michelangelo affected the culture at large. He had a certain impact on late Renaissance and Baroque forms of representation, but who really gives a shit about that today? And they shouldn't. While Lichtenstein may be an unfamiliar name to many, the imagery in his work would probably have greater resonance to a larger audience today (benday dot patterns forming pop culture images derived from comic books). Either way, they are irrelevant to many cultures in this country, and there is no reason either of them should have a position of importance in the lives of most people.
 
Missy said:
There is the culture experienced by youths in affluent suburbs, and the culture that those in economically depressed urban areas experience.
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How are they different?

Let's look at an average day in teh life of an American teen.

Parent yells at them to get their ass out of bed.
They shower, eat breakfast & dress.
They school.
They end the schoolday by going to a freinds house.
They go home for dinner.
They do chores.
They study.
They go to bed.

There are an infinite numbers of variations of that theme but that is an American teenagers day. The diferences are individual (what they eat, where they study, what chores they do) but the grand scale is the same. There are still only 88 keys on the keyboard.
 
Which explains the African & the American problem but not the black & white problem since we're all from the same culture.
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One wonders if you actually know anyone who belives differently than you do. Black Americans have a completely different culture than white Americans, Gonz. The fact that you are unwilling or unable to accept this in no way changes it.For instance, a black man in most of New York City will not try to hail a cab because only an idiot would believe one would stop for him. This is a cultural cifference between him and you.
The same culture.
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:disgust: You continually show no understanding for things you don't wish to accept, but I'm afraid that this does not make these things nonexistent. It's an interesting little world your living in, too bad it's not the real one. :shrug:

A black man (or woman) can have the same opportunities as a white man (or woman) in America. They simply have to be willing to work at least twice as hard to get it.
 
chcr said:
A black man (or woman) can have the same opportunities as a white man (or woman) in America. They simply have to be willing to work at least twice as hard to get it.
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That's the first thing you've said I agree with. I wonder how the blacks I know get along without killing themselves? Seems your world is failrly awful. My world solves problems.

Yes, they do have to work harder. Wanna know why. Because those that are part of "your" world have fucked everything up. You can't blame "my" world on the criminal element or the fact that black children are born out of wedlock & without fathers 3 out of 4 times.

The average white person is scared of the average black man. Why? Violence. You could almost corelate "white America" & "black America" with Israel & Palestine. Contemplate that for awhile.


I can guarantee a way out of poverty by 3 simple rules.

1) Finish High-school.
2) Never, ever quit a job without already having a repleacement. Never.
3)Do not have children out of wedlock.

99/100 will be, unquestionably & permanently, out of poverty in less than one generation following those rules. The remaining one couldn't pour piss from a boot with the instructions on the heels & is a natural born loser. We need them too.
 
So, the good Rev Doctor was wrong too?

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
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chcr said:
You know, I've been to a couple of blues clubs where the doormen didn't say it in so many words, but the sentiment was quite clear.
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but you were allowed in correct? thats when you STRUT in like yer king of the world. Ive been to plenty of all white affairs where people give me a what the hell do you think yer doing here look. I love it. i like forcing acceptance. its a thrill. let me know what blues clubs do that. ill go there and make a fuss about them not having Johnny Lang or Charlie Musslewhite on the line up.
 
Gonz said:
The average white person is scared of the average black man. Why? Violence.
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So you are scared of black people because you think they are violent or do you not consider yourself average?
 
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