Damn those American and British warmongers-Kill them all, now
- Thread starter Gonz
- Start date
Aunty Em
Well-Known Member
What makes you think that most of the anti-war protestors give a shit, so long as they can put their heads back in the sand and can't hear the screams?
I doubt if most of them even know what DICTATOR means - after all, Iraqis "vote" don't they?
In principle I'm against war, but you can't negotiate with a sadistic, lying madman.
I doubt if most of them even know what DICTATOR means - after all, Iraqis "vote" don't they?
In principle I'm against war, but you can't negotiate with a sadistic, lying madman.
madrin
New Member
I think some of these protesters give a shit about their "cause", but I think the vast majority of them fail to understand that they're being handled and used by organizations like Not In Our Name....
You see all the nice pre printed signs and placards? Yep...at each and every protest across the globe....pretty slick...nice and manufactured....and its FOR PROFIT. As time goes by I suspect this is less about getting a message out, and more about making a buck off of donations...
this was particularly driven home by the comments made in Berkeley at the protests last week by a gal affiliated with NION, saying that she hoped activism would increase because lately donation had been dropping off...
In any case, each time we see these peopel amass in our cities there should be a realization that the police forces required to maintain order and protect all the people involved have their attention focused away from the places they SHOULD be focusing on,namely both run of the mill crime AND potential terroist activities.
I personally consider that more important than filling up the coffers of professional protest organizations.
MADrin
You see all the nice pre printed signs and placards? Yep...at each and every protest across the globe....pretty slick...nice and manufactured....and its FOR PROFIT. As time goes by I suspect this is less about getting a message out, and more about making a buck off of donations...
this was particularly driven home by the comments made in Berkeley at the protests last week by a gal affiliated with NION, saying that she hoped activism would increase because lately donation had been dropping off...
In any case, each time we see these peopel amass in our cities there should be a realization that the police forces required to maintain order and protect all the people involved have their attention focused away from the places they SHOULD be focusing on,namely both run of the mill crime AND potential terroist activities.
I personally consider that more important than filling up the coffers of professional protest organizations.
MADrin
So all of us have opposed this war without a valid thought? I wish half of the people who support this action put half as much thought into it as I did....
chcr
Too cute for words
Right on squiggy! Granted that Saddam is a monster (I hear his son is worse), if Iraq's biggest export was dates, would we be at war now? We have ignored monsters before, even helped them to stay in power. You must consider international consequences when taking international action, and I'm afraid this action destabilizes the fragile veneer of civility that exists among major powers of the world. Gonz, if it was about saving the Iraqi people from Saddam, We're not just late, we're too late.
Please don't misunderstand, I support the troops 100%, they are simply carrying out government policy, as is their duty. It's the policy I don't agree with. Neither do I have any time for self righteous "peaceniks" (there's a blast from the past) who seem to be protesting because they think its "cool" or because of humanitarian reasons. Humanitarian reasons must start and end with the way the humans native to Iraq are treated. As mentioned in various other threads, I have serious concerns about where all this current stuff takes us, as a country as well as as a planet.
All that said, the worst thing that can happen to Hussein will still be entirely less than he deserves.
Please don't misunderstand, I support the troops 100%, they are simply carrying out government policy, as is their duty. It's the policy I don't agree with. Neither do I have any time for self righteous "peaceniks" (there's a blast from the past) who seem to be protesting because they think its "cool" or because of humanitarian reasons. Humanitarian reasons must start and end with the way the humans native to Iraq are treated. As mentioned in various other threads, I have serious concerns about where all this current stuff takes us, as a country as well as as a planet.
All that said, the worst thing that can happen to Hussein will still be entirely less than he deserves.
flavio
Banned
madrin said:
The people milling about in the streets have genrally put A LOT of thought into this. Many of them have printed up their own personal writings and thoughts on the matter.
Don't be naive and try to discount them by trying to associate them with groups you don't like. It just so happens that depending on which statistic you look at the whole US is pretty split on this subject. It's very likely that many of the people who blindly go along with whatever Bush feeds them are putting the least amount of thought into it of all.
...and Gonz, isolated cases don't prove a point.
Why don't we get some quotes from parents who's sons have just been killed by the US military to see what they think?
madrin
New Member
Uh huh, Flavio..
..you bet they have....signs and placards that read "100,000 dead in US Imperial war on Iraq"....and "FREE OIL ISNT WORTH 1 DEATH!!!" , and my favorite, " WAR IN IRAQ= GENOCIDE"...
....just now watched that on coverage of the NY protest....some mighty weighty thought there....
...I didn't associate them with any group...they associated themselves. And please don't lecture me on naivete...you've proven time and again what THAT particular trait is all about.
..that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what you've quoted by me, or the topic in general.
..I'd say that the people who are "blindly going along with what Bush feeds them...." have, by the premise of your statement, put almost NO thought into it...so once again, I ask you..what's your point?
You know, as usual, you don't put anything up to back up your arguments...you merely blabber on about this and that in an attempt to obscure whatever the message is that you don't agree with this week....
MADrin
..you bet they have....signs and placards that read "100,000 dead in US Imperial war on Iraq"....and "FREE OIL ISNT WORTH 1 DEATH!!!" , and my favorite, " WAR IN IRAQ= GENOCIDE"...
....just now watched that on coverage of the NY protest....some mighty weighty thought there....
...I didn't associate them with any group...they associated themselves. And please don't lecture me on naivete...you've proven time and again what THAT particular trait is all about.
..that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what you've quoted by me, or the topic in general.
..I'd say that the people who are "blindly going along with what Bush feeds them...." have, by the premise of your statement, put almost NO thought into it...so once again, I ask you..what's your point?
You know, as usual, you don't put anything up to back up your arguments...you merely blabber on about this and that in an attempt to obscure whatever the message is that you don't agree with this week....
MADrin
flavio
Banned
madrin said:
See, I was talking about pages literature that people have taken the time to put together and print up themselves. Much of which was individual writings.
You are talking about signs and placards. It's a bit hard to all your "mighty weighty" thoughts out in a few words.
I'll make it a bit more clear for you. Half the nation is split on the subject, of the half that is against the war many are protesting in some form. I believe it is naive of you to try and discount the people who don't agree with you by trying to associate them with some group you don't like.
...and the point here is that you said:
To which I am saying that many people who go along with what Bush feeds them haven't put near the thought into it as the average person milling about on the street.
Professur
Well-Known Member
Mad, you're not alone in your thinking
http://www.otcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6620
http://www.otcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6620
flavio
Banned
...or we could use my first-hand experience
http://fox302.com/userdata/flavio/files/Protest/P1010265.jpg
http://fox302.com/userdata/flavio/files/Protest/P1010265.jpg
madrin
New Member
Well Flav, you see, we're talking about two different things here. If you'd bothered to read the thread, which obviously you didn't, then you'd know I was talking about these protesters...the ones I specifically mentioned, carrying the signs I specifically mentioned , accomplishing the things I specifically mentioned.
and then you invoke this....
....marvy....neato....
But I'm talking about something completely different. I'm talking about professional protesters and the loss of legitimacy of the message. I'm talking about the fact that THOSE people, as I pointed out, have NOT put near the thought that someone like Squiggy has, and that's clear by asinine signs such as "100,000 KILLED....blah blah blah".
as for your patronizing line of shit about making things "a bit more clear"...I understand you better than you think....take your own hint and wipe YOUR lenses before posting things like
...there's nothing naive about posting on the intent of a group of people marching behind a 5X20 foot Not In Our Name banner, which is exactly what my original post in this thread was all about.
You made this statement...
...now which is it? Are they "blindly' going along with it , as you said in your original post, or have they merely heard what Bush has to say about things ? There's a fairly wide chasm between the two.
If you're saying that the people milling about on the street have put more thought into it than the people who "blindly follow Bush"...well....I've already granted that..and YOU quoted me on it....factually , someone who follows blindly puts almost NO thought into things, as I said before....
But if you're referring to people in the latter group , who merely heard what Bush had to say about things, then I can't for the life of me figure out how you've made the leap you've made....
In the end this isn't about what I agree with or disagree with...it's about what YOU disagree with. All anyone has to do is go back and read your posts to see this. You twist words and quote out of context....
There's nothing inherently wrong with that, mind you. In fact, it's a really effective technique when employed against ignorant readers......but no one I've read from here can be called ignorant or stupid....so your tactic ultimately fails. Try something different. Try sticking your nuts out for ONCE by making a statement instead of floating canned responses to other people's statements.
MADrin
and then you invoke this....
....marvy....neato....
But I'm talking about something completely different. I'm talking about professional protesters and the loss of legitimacy of the message. I'm talking about the fact that THOSE people, as I pointed out, have NOT put near the thought that someone like Squiggy has, and that's clear by asinine signs such as "100,000 KILLED....blah blah blah".
as for your patronizing line of shit about making things "a bit more clear"...I understand you better than you think....take your own hint and wipe YOUR lenses before posting things like
...there's nothing naive about posting on the intent of a group of people marching behind a 5X20 foot Not In Our Name banner, which is exactly what my original post in this thread was all about.
You made this statement...
...now which is it? Are they "blindly' going along with it , as you said in your original post, or have they merely heard what Bush has to say about things ? There's a fairly wide chasm between the two.
If you're saying that the people milling about on the street have put more thought into it than the people who "blindly follow Bush"...well....I've already granted that..and YOU quoted me on it....factually , someone who follows blindly puts almost NO thought into things, as I said before....
But if you're referring to people in the latter group , who merely heard what Bush had to say about things, then I can't for the life of me figure out how you've made the leap you've made....
In the end this isn't about what I agree with or disagree with...it's about what YOU disagree with. All anyone has to do is go back and read your posts to see this. You twist words and quote out of context....
There's nothing inherently wrong with that, mind you. In fact, it's a really effective technique when employed against ignorant readers......but no one I've read from here can be called ignorant or stupid....so your tactic ultimately fails. Try something different. Try sticking your nuts out for ONCE by making a statement instead of floating canned responses to other people's statements.
MADrin
madrin
New Member
Yep, Prof....I really don't think I've made that much of a reach here. I witnessed what I witnessed. I LIVE in generally the same area as Flavio does and I see it day in day out. There's NO hiding it and theres NO refuting it. I deal with these fucktard groups like Not In Our Name many times a week when they lay down in the street, spit at passers by, throw their own shit at Federal buildings....
.....and the vast majority of them are all sporting pre-made signs given to them by their handlers. it's disgusting and it cheapens the anti-war message...and THAT, is what I wrote about...that and the fact that by doing what they do, they take security resources away from the job they SHOULD be doing in order that a bunch of dumbfuck automatons can march around with some else's message...
MADrin
.....and the vast majority of them are all sporting pre-made signs given to them by their handlers. it's disgusting and it cheapens the anti-war message...and THAT, is what I wrote about...that and the fact that by doing what they do, they take security resources away from the job they SHOULD be doing in order that a bunch of dumbfuck automatons can march around with some else's message...
MADrin
flavio
Banned
madrin said:
You specifically replied to my statement about the available literature with slogans from signs and placards.
madrin said:
The problem is trying to associate all or most of the protestors with one section of them. There was a big group of people crotcheting for peace the other day. Does that mean all protestors crotchet?
If you have some problem with a sub-section of protestors we can discuss that but when you start genralizing the "vast majority" that is when I start taking issue.
I don't believe the vast majority have anyhting to do with it "for profit".
madrin said:
...and that's just blatantly false from what I've seen. Hell, look at my pictures.
As far as the rest of your insults go...I'm not in the mood to play that game today. Lets just stick to topic please.
flavio said:
How many do you need before they're not isolated cases? These people needed help & whether it's for (some of) our idealistic reasons or (some of) your blood for oil reasons, we're there, they're happy we're there & freedom comes at a cost.
flavio said:
I took the pledge to put my life on the line as did every one of these soldiers. Since it's 100% volunteer, the parents didn't do enough to convince the soldiers to not sign up. Hell, my bro-in-law, the Green Beret, is very upset his son just went in, following his fathers footsteps to the Beret. Didn't matter, the son was an adult. We all hope & pray for his safety but it's out of our hands.
Squiggy said:
Nothing is all. Some have, some haven't. Ironic that there are more professors on the streets than students.
flavio said:
There are plenty of warmongers to go around, willing to be "handled". Same with peacenics.