View Full Version : Guess this hero didn't need a gun
LITTLETON, Colo. – The gunman was walking through a middle school parking lot and taking shots at students with a hunting rifle as terrified teenagers ran for their lives. He had just wounded two students and seemed ready to unleash more violence when a math teacher named David Benke sprung into action.
Benke confronted the 32-year-old gunman, tackled him and pinned him to the ground with the help of another teacher, stopping what could have been a much more violent encounter in a city all too familiar with tragic school shootings. The shooting occurred in the same city where the Columbine High School massacre happened nearly 11 years ago.
"Unfortunately he got another round off before I could grab him," Benke said. "He figured out that he wasn't going to be able to get another round chambered before I got to him so he dropped the gun and then we were kind of struggling around trying to get him subdued."
The two students survived Tuesday's shooting and one remained hospitalized.
Police said they aren't immediately sure about what motivated Bruco Strongeagle Eastwood to target Deer Creek Middle School just after classes had ended for the day. Eastwood has an arrest record in Colorado dating back to 1996 for menacing, assault, domestic violence and driving under the influence, and he is believed to have a history of mental issues.
Jefferson County Sheriff Ted Mink praised Benke and called him a hero. Benke, the father of 7-year-old twins and a 13-year-old girl, fought back tears after Mink thanked him.
"Believe me when I say, I think he stopped what could have been a more tragic event than it was this afternoon," Mink said.
The victims, students Reagan Webber and Matt Thieu, were both treated at Littleton Adventist Hospital, where spokeswoman Christine Alexander said Webber was treated and released to her home. Thieu was transferred to The Children's Hospital, where he was listed in critical condition late Tuesday.
Benke, a 6-foot-5 former college basketball player who oversees the school's track team, was monitoring the parking lot in the afternoon when he heard what he thought was a firecracker and began walking toward the noise.
"At first when I was walking over there, it was kind of what a teacher does," Benke said, still shaken hours after the shooting. "`Hey kid, what are you doing,' you know that kind of thing."
He said another teacher was quickly on the scene and both of them pinned the gunman to the ground. Eastwood was armed with a bolt-action rifle.
"I basically have my arms and legs wrapped around him, (the other teacher) has his forearm around his front and we were basically trying to get the guy to quit struggling."
More (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100224/ap_on_re_us/us_colo_school_shooting)
well great job on the part of this benke guy, but if he had put one in the guy's chest, there would have been less of a chance of a struggle not going the way of the hero.
of course this will mean we need to ban all semiautomatic firearms, right? i mean, golly, if that kid had a semiautomatic... or even a pump shotgun... yeah, we should ban 'em all.
in other news... (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/us/24guns.html?th&emc=th)
ResearchMonkey
2/24/10, 11:23am
Being 6'-5" prolly helped a little too.
ResearchMonkey
2/24/10, 11:26am
in other news... (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/us/24guns.html?th&emc=th)
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7048/1266870223449.jpg
Rack'em, stack'em and pack'em
:swing:
well somebody's a fan of that company that put stuff about jesus on their optics. yeah this guy is just a little over the top. over 3000 rounds loaded in magazines. winky needs to change his shorts now.
"Unfortunately he got another round off before I could grab him," Benke said. "He figured out that he wasn't going to be able to get another round chambered before I got to him so he dropped the gun and then we were kind of struggling around trying to get him subdued."
Bish, you posted this article as a pro-gun-control example of how people are still able to stop crazy gunmen without having their own guns.
However, this line knocks down that article. The only reason Benke was a hero and not another casuality was because the gunman missed the first shot. When Benke started running at the gunman, he had enough time to get one shot off at Benke, which would have killed him if the gunman hadn't missed.
This is a feel-good story about a hero saving lives, but it's a story where everyone got really lucky. Had the gunman been able to hit Benke with that one shot, this would have been a far more disastrous story.
The odds of hitting a moving target is lower than you might imagine... the odds of a straight kill are lower still. He also had a second man coming at him (also unarmed).
The story is not so much about the unarmed hero, but about the joys of letting just anyone have a weapon for any reason without reasonable constraints on who can and cannot own a firearm.
Eastwood has an arrest record in Colorado dating back to 1996 for menacing, assault, domestic violence and driving under the influence, and he is believed to have a history of mental issues.
This guy should obviously have been on the have-not section of the 2nd amendment.
well somebody's a fan of that company that put stuff about jesus on their optics. yeah this guy is just a little over the top. over 3000 rounds loaded in magazines. winky needs to change his shorts now.
Here's a question...what exactly is the point of owning and arming so many guns? The photo above isn't that of a 'collection' by someone who collects firearms like people collect stamps..it isn't even about someone who wants a gun in their home/car/person for self-defense. That is a collection of someone with some serious issues with paranoia.
ResearchMonkey
2/24/10, 02:41pm
I know a number of people with large, and even larger gun collections.
My own brother for one. Albeit he only has about dozen pistols and he has a wider variety of types of weapons. He has an entire room dedicated to his weapons, supporting equipment and a living room full of trophy's. I also know a guy who has 40' pistol range at his office/shop.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/925/malcolmxbyanymeansneces.jpg
Yeah, paranoia.
Here's a question...what exactly is the point of owning and arming so many guns? The photo above isn't that of a 'collection' by someone who collects firearms like people collect stamps..it isn't even about someone who wants a gun in their home/car/person for self-defense. That is a collection of someone with some serious issues with paranoia.
it is a collection. now i would never collect that many firearms, but so what? it's not like he could use all of them at once.
why do i own 20 guitars? because i can? golly, that amount of guitars and associated other items i own... hmm, awfully over the top huh? i must have some issues with... well, yeah, i have plenty of issues. and that's my business.
The father, War Eagle Eastwood, owns the War Eagle Ranch near Hudson in south Weld County, where they train and raise horses for sale.
The father said his son was trying to get his G.E.D. high school equivalency, but was not able to complete it due to his mental health problems. “He's been bothered with mental problems for a long time,” the father said. “He tried to get medical help for them, but he couldn't afford to pay for the care.”
He's a victim of the society that failed him. (http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20100224/NEWS/100229813/1005&parentprofile=1001)
The bigger question is why would his father, an affluent horse rancher, just not shell out the $$ for private health insurance instead of leaving guns lying around in the reach of someone with " mental problems" and a long history of violence? :shrug:
ResearchMonkey
2/24/10, 04:39pm
Mentally ill defectives kill people.
also: yeah, you could kill people with those geetars. BANNED!
cerise how do you know his father is affluent and/or lefts guns "lying around" the home?
(now, to me, the father sounds useless, one of those "we've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas" types, but i don't know that.)
I'm guessing if he owns a horse ranch he has a few $$, and readily accessible guns to protect his investments from a marauding predator's fangs and claws.
But not paying for his son's medical treatment when the son can't afford it. Sheesh. In other words, he's an ineffective father.
:shrug:
........with those geetars.
Banjos? Yeehaw!
in other news... (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/us/24guns.html?th&emc=th)
The bigger question is, why do we have so many laws abolishing, or limiting, the freedom to keep & bear arms? There should be none.
Here's a question...what exactly is the point of owning and arming so many guns?
Freedom.
Benke exercised his right to bare arms which are the only arms one is allowed to use in a school (free-fire) zone. The University of Northern Colorado, at this writing, is attempting to create still one more free-fire zone by banning CCW on campus. Right now, there is no ban on CCW on campus and there has never been an incident -- ever.
Here's a question...what exactly is the point of owning and arming so many guns?
We have a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Needs.
What is the point in owning an 8' couch if your body is less than 2' wide?
ResearchMonkey
2/25/10, 05:18am
The bigger question is, why do we have so many laws abolishing, or limiting, the freedom to keep & bear arms? There should be none.
Freedom.Easy answer, Democrats wanted to disarm them uppity Negros.
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8305/guncontrolisracist.jpg
Taking guns of the oppositions, its how leftys roll. :hangman:
Easy answer, Democrats wanted to disarm them uppity Negros.
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8305/guncontrolisracist.jpg
Taking guns of the oppositions, its how leftys roll. :hangman:
that's ridiculous. so, the original thingy behind gun control was for the benefit of the klan, an ultraright organization, but now it's lefties that want to disarm people that may oppose them politically? hardly. the left uses the gun thing in the same way that the right uses willie hortons. it's just a scare the kiddies thing, based on irrational fears of unlikely events involving the thing to be scared of.
ResearchMonkey
2/25/10, 11:33am
Nice twisting there Minx. You can call it what you want, fact is it was democrats then and now.
The world is a dangerous, and it should be.
Oh good Gawd! Now you are just being silly!
Minx are you coming unhinged!
OK playing devils advocate for shits and giggles is one thing
but that’s just being a nut!
Precluding honest citizens from defending themselves is on a par with
the fucked up failure of the Government to do the one thing
they ARE supposed to do,
which is protect us from enemies foreign and domestic.
Fuck Man, the Willie Horton kinda thing happens all the time!
There have been endless instances of criminals doing heinous
crimes after being caught time and again and released to
continue their preying on innocent people.
Keep up the good works!
Nice twisting there Minx. You can call it what you want, fact is it was democrats then and now.
The world is a dangerous, and it should be.
yeah those ultraliberal southern democrats like george f'ing wallace... and you say i'm twistin'
pheeeeeuwwww.....
you've won the *self parody award of the day.*
No, more like the "Exalted Cyclops" dem from West Virginia. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzfK7AWx6_s)
That's Racist! (http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?Itemid=37&id=473&option=com_content&task=view)
But all hell broke loose after Rice wrote another article that drew historical connections between the Ku Klux Klan and the Democratic Party.
She wrote that this ugly fact about the Democrat Party is detailed in the book, A Short History of Reconstruction, (Harper & Row Publishers, Inc., 1990) by Dr. Eric Foner, the renowned liberal historian who is the DeWitt Clinton Professor of History at Columbia University.
“Democrats … did not hide their connections to the Ku Klux Klan. Georgia-born Democrat Nathan Bedford Forrest, a Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan wrote on page 21 of the September 1928 edition of the Klan’s The Kourier Magazine, “I have never voted for any man who was not a regular Democrat. My father … never voted for any man who was not a Democrat. My grandfather was …the head of the Ku Klux Klan in reconstruction days…. My great-grandfather was a life-long Democrat…. My great-great-grandfather was…one of the founders of the Democratic Party.”
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/782/509pxantikkkcartoon.jpg
"Cartoon from 1868, which accuses the Democratic party presidential candidates of relying on support from Ku Klux Klan members who were Confederate traitors in 1864 (from the point of view of the USA)."
yeah, and hitler's party was the national "socialist" party, but everybody knows, they's was damned nazis.
meaningless labels are meaningless. if you read any decent history of voting blocks in the US you'll understand that the southern democrats (you know, the socially conservative segregationist types) of yesterday are the southern republicans of today. you know, your people.
but you know this. you're just yanking the chain again.
ResearchMonkey
2/25/10, 01:15pm
How many Klansmen, or former Klansmen, serve in congress?
just sayin'
yeah yeah prolly only byrd who is an ancient democrat. and that means... virtually nothing.
"After World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II), during the civil rights movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Rights_Movement_%281955-1968%29), Democrats in the South initially still voted loyally with their party. The signing of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964), however, was the last straw for many Southern Democrats, who began voting against Democratic incumbents for GOP candidates. The Republicans carried many Southern states for the first time since before the Great Depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression)."
ResearchMonkey
2/25/10, 02:42pm
Hahaha. Wow, just wow.
:drink2:
yeah maybe learn something about history instead of just spraying decontextualized kitty litter factlets again? i mean i realize that's often all there is that can support certain viewpoints, but after a while, it just gets sad.
man at danville, KY city hall to my father in 1974: "boy, now why would you want to register as one of them [republicans]?" shortly thereafter, the man proceeded to bring "the nigger problem" to my father's attention.
nah, southern democrats are liberal as all shit.
:drink2:
We have a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Needs.
What is the point in owning an 8' couch if your body is less than 2' wide?
Just because it is your right, doesn't mean that you have to exercise said right..or even over-exercise it in order to protect it.
Your 2nd was a case of need... whether it remains is another story.
Just because it is your right, doesn't mean that you have to exercise said right..or even over-exercise it in order to protect it.
Your 2nd was a case of need... whether it remains is another story.
Rights are absolute.
that's ridiculous. so, the original thingy behind gun control was for the benefit of the klan, an ultraright organization, but now it's lefties that want to disarm people that may oppose them politically? hardly. the left uses the gun thing in the same way that the right uses willie hortons. it's just a scare the kiddies thing, based on irrational fears of unlikely events involving the thing to be scared of.
I guess you have never read Clayton Cramer's "The Racist Roots of Gun Control" (http://www.constitution.org/cmt/cramer/racist_roots.htm). I thought you were better informed on the firearms front.
Just because it is your right, doesn't mean that you have to exercise said right..or even over-exercise it in order to protect it.
Your 2nd was a case of need... whether it remains is another story.
Everyone has a right to exercise or not exercise any right. If you choose to speak you are exercising your right to free speech. If you remain quiet, you are exercising your right to not exercise your right to free speech.
The need remains as needful as it ever was. The threat of armed rebellion has held this government in check for 228 years. Read up on the "Battle of Athens, Tennessee" (http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/athens.htm).
yeah, and hitler's party was the national "socialist" party, but everybody knows, they's was damned nazis.
Yes they were. Left all the way.
Man, those SoDems had reason to abandon the Dixiecrats
By party
The original House version:[8]
Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)
Cloture in the Senate:[9]
Democratic Party: 44-23 (66%-34%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)
The Senate version:[8]
Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[8]
Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)
Rights are absolute.
..so, if Bundy got released tomorrow, he'd be able to walk into a gun store Sunday and legally buy a gun...and you'd have no issue with this? How about Berkowitz? How about the local drug-pusher? Local child molester? The paranoid schizophrenic off his meds?
Anyone, anytime for any reason? :swing:
ResearchMonkey
2/26/10, 10:59am
Once your punitive debt to society is paid, it is paid.
When your kid behaves bad, is he always bad from then on?
ResearchMonkey
2/26/10, 11:01am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU
Once your punitive debt to society is paid, it is paid.
When your kid behaves bad, is he always bad from then on?
So...no problems with people crossing over your borders into the USA, despite criminal records? Kewl...so much for the 'no fly' list, or being stopped at the borders for a 10yr old DWI... wait till the world hears of this. :D
ResearchMonkey
2/26/10, 11:53am
Um, those folks ain't us citizens and their system aint our system. Keep 'em out them illegals period.
Although I am all for armed citizen protecting the borders and personal property.
Side arms for the win!
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3586/clipboard01bigorsmall.png
ResearchMonkey
2/26/10, 12:26pm
So...no problems with people crossing over your borders into the USA, despite criminal records? Kewl...so much for the 'no fly' list, or being stopped at the borders for a 10yr old DWI... wait till the world hears of this. :D
Hey Bishy, don't you have some indigenous Indian lands you should be taking to show the world how cool you folks are?
Um, those folks ain't us citizens and their system aint our system. Keep 'em out them illegals period.
Although I am all for armed citizen protecting the borders and personal property.
Side arms for the win!
but...it's your system keeping them out. It's also your system putting your citizens on your no-fly list. Why shouldn't Scott Roeder have access to firearms once he gets out? Hell, license drug dealers comin' out of stir... it's aaaaaallll good.
Armed citizens patrolling borders? Why not fire all the cops while you're at it? I'm sure that Joe on the street is more than able to investigate and stop crime. Turf the courts too...don't need them. Baby with the bathwater... what baby?
Hey Bishy, don't you have some indigenous Indian lands you should be taking to show the world how cool you folks are?
I don't live on gvt concentration ca...er...reservations.
ResearchMonkey
2/26/10, 12:52pm
but...it's your system keeping them out. It's also your system putting your citizens on your no-fly list. Why shouldn't Scott Roeder have access to firearms once he gets out? Hell, license drug dealers comin' out of stir... it's aaaaaallll good.
Armed citizens patrolling borders? Why not fire all the cops while you're at it? I'm sure that Joe on the street is more than able to investigate and stop crime. Turf the courts too...don't need them. Baby with the bathwater... what baby?I'm surprised, your making sense.
Yeah.... IF they get out of jail, finish parole and have a clean slate..... sure.
When seconds counts, the cops are only minutes away. Cops have role but they cannot guarantee my safety.
IF you allow freedom to reign, you can expect an increase of death and violence. That will subside and the crime rate will drop much lower as bad people die and other learn -- "my victim might be armed and so might the people around them."
Stay safe, stay in Canada.
I guess you have never read Clayton Cramer's "The Racist Roots of Gun Control" (http://www.constitution.org/cmt/cramer/racist_roots.htm). I thought you were better informed on the firearms front.
i think you need to reread my post. i'm fully aware of what went on. what i'm disputing - not that it needs to be disputed anywhere but dense as a neutron star TRW - is that the folks that pulled that shit are historically contiguous with today's "gun grabbing liberals." rather they have far more in common with those we now identify with an extreme conservatism. do YOU think of southern democrats in the 50s as liberal? how about their predecessors in the 30s?
you know the easy-as-pie concealed carry permits we can get here is WA state came about because of fear of black panthers, right?
at one level one could readily argue this is more about who has access to power rather than "rights" as such.
Yes they were. Left all the way.
ORLY? how so? you are aware that fascism is definitionally at the extreme right, right? sorta the extreme embodiment of the kind of flag waving identity politics we see around here all the time...?
oh, right i forgot, all the bad guys are on the left. it's a comic book world!
..so, if Bundy got released tomorrow, he'd be able to walk into a gun store Sunday and legally buy a gun...and you'd have no issue with this? How about Berkowitz? How about the local drug-pusher? Local child molester? The paranoid schizophrenic off his meds?
Anyone, anytime for any reason? :swing:
Criminals lose certain rights. They may petition for their return. Just like always.
Here's a question...what exactly is the point of owning and arming so many guns? The photo above isn't that of a 'collection' by someone who collects firearms like people collect stamps..it isn't even about someone who wants a gun in their home/car/person for self-defense. That is a collection of someone with some serious issues with paranoia.
I once knew someone who collected teddy bears of all kinds. She had her husband build shelves all over the house, wall to wall, so she could display all of these teddy bears (small, large, stuffed, or whatever). I think she and this guy share the same kind of mental illness.
ORLY? how so? you are aware that fascism is
definitionally at the extreme right, right? sorta the extreme embodiment of the kind of flag waving identity politics we see around here all the time...?
oh, right i forgot, all the bad guys are on the left. it's a comic book world!
Benito Mussolini's Doctrine of Fascism
;) ... good one.
Git 'em, Minks!
wrongo once again Leftie but you are used to that
your ability to delude yourself is admirable
I am rather envious, do you need drugs and alcohol
to keep that level of self delusion going?
wrongo once again Leftie but you are used to that
your ability to delude yourself is admirable
I am rather envious, do you need drugs and alcohol
to keep that level of self delusion going?
wrong about what? you gonna make some sort of point or just dangle yer weenie in the breeze?
ResearchMonkey
2/27/10, 06:50pm
Nothing quite like a warm wind. ;)
Criminals lose certain rights. They may petition for their return. Just like always.
Not actually. The anti-firearms groups lobbied for the defunding of the Restoration of Rights program at Treasury. In the recent case of UNITED STATES et al. v. BEAN (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=01-704) the court ruled that Bean had no right to go to the district court to have his rights restored. The law states that upon denial of application of restoration of rights a person may then apply to the district court. The SCotUS thew this wrench into the mix"
The absence of an actual denial by ATF of a felon's petition precludes judicial review under [section]925(c). The Secretary of the Treasury is authorized to grant relief from a firearms disability if certain preconditions are met, and an applicant may seek federal-court review if the Secretary denies his application. Ibid. Since 1992, however, the appropriations bar has prevented ATF, to which the Secretary has delegated this authority, from using appropriated funds to investigate or act upon the applications. Section 925(c)'s text and the procedure it lays out for seeking relief make clear that an actual decision by ATF on an application is a prerequisite for judicial review, and that mere inaction by ATF does not invest a district court with independent jurisdiction. Grammatically, the phrase "denied by the Secretary" references the Secretary's decision on whether an applicant "will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety," and whether "the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest." Such determination can hardly be construed as anything but a decision actually denying the application.
IF you allow freedom to reign, you can expect an increase of death and violence. That will subside and the crime rate will drop much lower as bad people die and other learn -- "my victim might be armed and so might the people around them."
Stay safe, stay in Canada.
...which would give your bad guys the 'shoot first before you get shot at' ideal. If the victim in question has a good chance of being armed..kill him/her without delay. It's self-defense, after all.
You sure you're not an anarchist?
ResearchMonkey
3/01/10, 04:27pm
Freedom has inherent dangers, that owuld include the freedom to kill someone at risk of being killed.
It would take time to thin the herd of the liberal damage we have lived under for too long.
:rofl: Liberal damage... that's funny. Got another one?
ResearchMonkey
3/01/10, 05:07pm
Liberalism Kills
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9507/0301101inside1.jpg
Freedom has inherent dangers, that owuld include the freedom to kill someone at risk of being killed.
It would take time to thin the herd of the liberal damage we have lived under for too long.
GW Bush wasn't considered liberal... but thanks for playing.
Next contestant, please!
GW Bush wasn't considered liberal... but thanks for playing.
The hell he wasn't. Only the left called him conservative.
The hell he wasn't. Only the left called him conservative.
Well he played up to the Far Left like he was one of their own and rode the Republican pony like a trooper. If you ask him he'll claim the conservative side is where his heart is.
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