View Full Version : Winter tires.
Professur
1/29/04, 06:45pm
Well Well. Looks like quebec might actually have a good idea. There's talk that they're gonna make it illegal to drive during winter on 4 season tires. About damn time.
They're going to add another tax for drivers?
Professur
1/29/04, 06:47pm
Ah, gonz. what makes you think like that. Only a class A idiot tries to do winter with 4 seasons.
If your choice is buy another set of tires or don't drive, it's taxing (mandatory insurance is a tax)
I don't mind "tax" if it makes some lazy cheap dumbass not kill me :shrug:
Professur
1/29/04, 06:53pm
Sad that you see it that way. I look at it more as, if you're trying to drive on 4 seasons, you're a danger to other drivers, and hence, aren't allowed to drive. Any more than you'd be allowed to drive with a foot of snow heaped on your hood.
If you work 2 miles from home, in the city, & all your shopping is within that radius, is it that big of a deal?
Professur
1/29/04, 06:58pm
In sub 15C yeah, it is. You know as well as I do that cold effects stopping distance. Under -15C, 4 seasons are useless. And on any ice at all, they're useless. And in any depth of snow, they're useless.
Most of the US states outlaw studded tires & the few that allow them are very strict. I'm yet to drive a vehicle that the tires did squat on ice....that's why we have plows with salt
Most of the US states outlaw studded tires & the few that allow them are very strict. I'm yet to drive a vehicle that the tires did squat on ice....that's why we have plows with salt
Really, when I was living in upstate New York, I thought they made a huge difference. I also carried snow chains for emergencies. I knew people who didn't run snow tires, I thought them ignorant. Note that I don't use them here. It snows four or five times a year max.
Note that it takes 20 minutes to change tires, and if the roads were going to be mostly clear I would change back to regular snows.
i have all season performance tires on mine. i've had no problems negotiating the snow covered streets around here.
granted, it has everything to do with the car i'm driving, but if the local powers that be said i had to go out and get a set of snow tires, i think i'd be pretty miffed.
NOt as many outlaw as they once did pdf (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/winter/states.PDF)
I am with Gonz on this one. I got all season tires on the back of my pickup and I drove through the snow quite safely even with no weight in the bed. I am too poor to afford the "tax" of having to change tires and we get usually less than one week of snow in my area a year. Studs are allowed here in winter but there is much debate and studs may likely become illegal even in winter here.
AlphaTroll
1/31/04, 04:10am
Glad I don't live where such things would be required - we use the same tyres all year round, just drive slower in wet conditions and make sure you allow a safe following distance (well, that's what the normal people do).
Can someone tell me what snow-chains are?
Ms Ann Thrope
1/31/04, 04:24am
http://www.europaskilodge.co.uk/motoring/graphics/chains.gif
Ms Ann Thrope
1/31/04, 04:26am
ooo.... aren't these cool looking? :cool:
http://www.kabedex.cz/pic/novinky/sneh_retezy_tr.jpg
AlphaTroll
1/31/04, 04:34am
Allrighty then...I guess you use them in really bad snow.............are they mandatory? How thick must the snow be? Do you get fined for not having them?
ooo.... aren't these cool looking? :cool:
http://www.kabedex.cz/pic/novinky/sneh_retezy_tr.jpg
Rubber and chains? Kinky! :lloyd:
Allrighty then...I guess you use them in really bad snow.............are they mandatory? How thick must the snow be? Do you get fined for not having them?
Most chains actually look like the set on the right in this pic:
http://www.slingmaster.com.sg/images/19&10series.jpg
What they are is steel cable wrapped by many individual 1/2 to 1/4 inch aluminum cylinders.
I have never known the to be required in any snow with one exception. Sometimes mountain passes require them as a safety measure. You can use them in as little as maybe 3-4 inches so long as its compacted on the roads.
*stupid question*
In which way do chains help when the road has snow?? :confuse3:
They dig into the snow ort ice & add traction
Allrighty then...I guess you use them in really bad snow.............are they mandatory? How thick must the snow be? Do you get fined for not having them?
In Arizona, believe it or not, if you drive East or West leaving the state you have to go over mountains. They occasionally will stop you and make you turn back if you don't have chains or four wheel drive and the snow is bad.
Professur
2/01/04, 06:22am
Just a clarification. I see several mentions of studs. Studded tires aren't the only form of winter tires.
A regular winter tire simply has a softer rubber compound, and a deeper, self clearing tread. The softer rubber is needed in lower temps (-15c) because the rubber of summer or 4 season tires becomes too stiff, and can't form to the texture of the road. Basically, you're not sticking to the road anymore. Imagine the difference between walking on a sidewalk, and a hospital floor.
The deeper tread is needed because 4 season tread clogs up. The tread pattern that's good for channelling water doesn't do dick for snow. You wind up riding up on the snow, instead of biting through to the road surface. In half an inch of snow, that's no big deal. But we're not talking half an inch. Also, new winter tires today have an advanced feature that differienciates them from the old classic off road tire. Thin grooves cut into the lugs, giving up to 20 times the "bite" on ice and snow. Ice tires expand on that technology by making those grooves wavy, adding to the total "edge area". On top of that, ice tires add yet more "bite" by using a foamed rubber compound (Blizzak) or fibers (Toyo).
And for those who want to talk cost, let's talk.
Sure, I have to buy 2 sets of tires for each car. A smart person will even go the added expense of an additional set of rims. But, since the winter tires are only being used in winter, one set will often last the life of the car. And since you're not wearing out your 4 seasons spinning them in winter, they'll last longer too. Total cost of tires ends up the same, over the life of the car. And by paying the cost of the new rims, you save the cost of having to have your tires remounted twice a year. Pays for the rims PDQ. And, it gives you the chance to take those stock rims, and use them for the winters, while you upgrade to a nice shiny set of mags to offset your summer shoes. Something many people are doing anyways. Since noone in their right mind is gonna subject their mags to winter road salt.
i have all season performance tires on mine. i've had no problems negotiating the snow covered streets around here.
granted, it has everything to do with the car i'm driving, but if the local powers that be said i had to go out and get a set of snow tires, i think i'd be pretty miffed.
Consider it this way then. Mandatory seat-belt laws pissed off many people when they came in. Manufacturers had to put them in their new cars, prices went up for those cars, people were pissed that belts were wrinkling up their clothes etc... do sealbelts save lives!!! You damn skippy they do!
Child-seats - expensive and take up space...save lives because they're mandatory...yup, lots of kids survive accidents because of them.
Snow-tires - expensive and ou have to store them in the summer. Save lives because they're about to become mandatory? Sure...they'll save lives and reduce accidents.
I already own snow-tires on rims for my van...they've already saved me damage to my van a few times. I know this becuase I didn't slide through and intersection and the guy in the next lane did. He got himself hit by a 4x4 right in front of me. Same street, same stop-sign, same conditions...the difference? I had new snow-tires on...he had old 4-season...I got a close look at one when I went to check to see if he was OK. It was easy to see...it was sticking out sideways from the car.
Snow-tires around here should be mandatory. They WILL save lives.
Professur
2/02/04, 04:30pm
Save lives? Fuck that. Anyone dumb enough to go around on 4 seasons in Quebec has no right breathing. but it'll help shove down the insurance costs.
Save lives? Fuck that. Anyone dumb enough to go around on 4 seasons in Quebec has no right breathing. but it'll help shove down the insurance costs.
I don't have an issue with idiot-drivers killing themselves off...makes the streets safer. It's just that they are as likely to take out another car (with winter tires on them), or pedestrians when they go sliding through interesections or miss a turn and end up on the sidewalk.
Shoving down insurance costs! By all means...just like having a car-alarm installed, or a kill-switch. I don't hear too many people complaining about that. Perhaps if they reduced the insurance of drivers with snow-tires on all four wheels (proof-show your bill), then more people would comply. :)
Well, from the standpoint of someone living in a mild climate like mine in western Washinton state, studs should be illegal being as we get on average 1 week of 3-8 inches of snow all year and some years we get none. In a climate like this, if you are careful and know how to drive in it, and you also consider roads are mostly plowed, you can get around fine on all seasons. I know because I drove in it on my all seasons in a truck with no weight in the bed and I did fine.
Professur
2/02/04, 05:57pm
And if we were talking about studs, you'd be right. Even in Mtl, studs are outlawed. But we're talking winter tires. Not studs.
paul_valaru
2/03/04, 12:22pm
And if we were talking about studs, you'd be right. Even in Mtl, studs are outlawed. But we're talking winter tires. Not studs.
studs aren't outlawed here, you can have studded tires from Nov. to Apr.
it's in ontario that you can't have any
You can have studs here if there is snow on the ground, but not any other time. Kinda makes it a pain in the ass unless you own a tire shop, since most snows only stick around for a week or two at best. Snow tires are pretty well unheard of here, but where i grew up in Iowa it was a Bi-annual event, putting them on and taking them off.
Professur
2/03/04, 01:00pm
Paul, it was my understanding that studs aren't allowed on island.
paul_valaru
2/03/04, 01:10pm
Paul, it was my understanding that studs aren't allowed on island.
I know the old ban was provincial, don't know the municipal laws, but the new studs don't damage teh roads, that is why they lifted the ban
Professur
2/03/04, 01:13pm
I stick with the new japanese fiber impregnated studless designs. Although, the tires I got for the pickup are studdable, just in case I buy a plow.
drkavnger99
2/03/04, 04:16pm
I don't know if anyone noticed but in Minnesota they totally ban them!! I would buy a pair if I could (although I've owned blizzaks which are winter tires w/o studs or chains) because I've seen first hand the difference in both lane changes (quicker and safer response) and stopping distance. Chains on the other hand are the most dangerous things in the world on a vehicles tires. Has anyone ever seen them break while the tire is moving slowly or fast?? It will rip a hole in your wheel-well before you can say MOTHERFUCKING PIECES OF SHIT! And watch your hands, feet, actually your whole damn body if someone is trying to get unstuck with them on cause if they break and your behind, beside or in front of it no telling where the pieces of it and the car will go!
Professur
2/03/04, 04:35pm
Hence why you only use them for emergencies, and only at low speed. I saw one a-hole with them, stuck in a snow bank. Fuckhead thought that since he had chains on, he was unstoppable. Well, asshole, with enough snow jammed up under the body, you're not only stopable, you're stopped. But noooooooo. He tried his usual retarded method. He spun the tires.
It was Be. Ute. EEE. Ful. Shrapnel. That's the only description for it. Shrapnel, right through the fender. Into the engine. Windshield. Fan fucking tanstic.
drkavnger99
2/03/04, 06:04pm
Hence why you only use them for emergencies, and only at low speed. I saw one a-hole with them, stuck in a snow bank. Fuckhead thought that since he had chains on, he was unstoppable. Well, asshole, with enough snow jammed up under the body, you're not only stopable, you're stopped. But noooooooo. He tried his usual retarded method. He spun the tires.
It was Be. Ute. EEE. Ful. Shrapnel. That's the only description for it. Shrapnel, right through the fender. Into the engine. Windshield. Fan fucking tanstic.
:lol2: :elaugh4: :retard5:
That is what I'm talking about because just like seatbelts it may save lives but used inproperly or in the hands of total morons it can be very dangerous!
Professur
2/03/04, 06:06pm
Well, yeah. If someone's stupid enough to wrap the seatbelt around their neck. But I've always said that stupidity should be a self imposed death penalty offence.
drkavnger99
2/03/04, 06:11pm
Well, yeah. If someone's stupid enough to wrap the seatbelt around their neck. But I've always said that stupidity should be a self imposed death penalty offence.
Very true.... Now I just wish no one was there to correct them before it happens! :evilcool:
AlphaTroll
2/04/04, 11:25am
*peanut gallery from the South raises her hand again*
So, don't those chains cut your tires or reduce their life-span?
paul_valaru
2/04/04, 12:45pm
*peanut gallery from the South raises her hand again*
So, don't those chains cut your tires or reduce their life-span?
yes they do, but it's that or skidding off the road, and reducing your lifespan
Professur
2/04/04, 03:30pm
Generic ones do more damage than well fitted ones. Custom made ones work with the lugs and hardly cause any damage.
But you have to remember something. Winter tires are meant to wear out faster than other tires. That's how you get traction. The more traction you need, the faster your tires wear out.
A.B.Normal
2/04/04, 03:50pm
As has been hinted by some here in reference to 4X4 drivers zoomin around figuring they're immune from winter,"make " someone put Winter tires and/or chains on and they are going to drive faster and more careless. Those that put on Winter tires of their own accord benefit from the added traction because they realize the potential for disaster. Mandating Winter tires is going to cause idiots to wipe out at faster speeds,not keep them controlled.
paul_valaru
2/04/04, 03:51pm
As has been hinted by some here in reference to 4X4 drivers zoomin around figuring they're immune from winter,"make " someone put Winter tires and/or chains on and they are going to drive faster and more careless. Those that put on Winter tires of their own accord benefit from the added traction because they realize the potential for disaster. Mandating Winter tires is going to cause idiots to wipe out at faster speeds,not keep them controlled.
darwin in action!
works for me
A.B.Normal
2/04/04, 03:59pm
Unfortunately they'll be tryin to take "you" out at the higher rate of speed too.
AlphaTroll
2/04/04, 04:22pm
I vote we....err....that be you......skinned & used as winter tyres.
But you have to remember something. Winter tires are meant to wear out faster than other tires. That's how you get traction. The more traction you need, the faster your tires wear out.
That's the same reason why performance tires usually have a treadwear rating of around 100, while your typical all-season has a rating of 400-450, meaning it wears out in about a quarter the time. The performance tire sticks a lot better, which is why you can corner in some sports cars and get so much force sideways that it's actually stronger than gravity, yet the tires won't let go.
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