View Full Version : Mars Express Confirms Water Ice on Red Planet
Woohoo!!!!
The European Mars Express orbiter has confirmed the existence of water ice in the south polar cap of Mars. The craft also beamed back a detailed photo of a channel on the red planet that might have long ago been created by flowing water.
Scientists have long known that Mars' north polar cap is composed mostly of water ice. Previous observations (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/space/sc_space/storytext/SIG=kuapo3/*http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice_030213.html) by NASA (news (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news?p=%22NASA%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw) - web sites (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=NASA&h=c))'s Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) had experts convinced the south polar cap contained water ice, too.
In fact there appears to be a vast store of frozen water mostly buried under a blanket of carbon dioxide ice, commonly called dry ice.
Some of the dry ice melts away during summer in the southern hemisphere of Mars, exposing sheets of water ice below -- that's what MGS had found photographic evidence for.
Now Mars Express has made the first detection of a chemical signature of the water ice at the south pole. Officials said today they had essentially seen the vapors of water at the surface.
"You look at the picture, look at the fingerprint and say this is water ice," said Allen Moorehouse of European Space Agency. "This is the first time it's been detected on the ground. This is the first direct confirmation."
The presence of water ice was noted by the orbiter's camera and confirmed by a infrared spectrometer, which splits light like a prism and analyzes the chemicals involved in producing the light.
In other observations (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/space/sc_space/storytext/SIG=kaoudr/*http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/odyssey_update_030314.html) made by NASA's Mars Odyssey probe over the past couple of years, scientists have found strong evidence for water ice buried in the Martian soil away from the permanently frozen polar caps. Altogether, Mars appears to contain significant amounts of water, but so far what's been found is all frozen.
No firm evidence yet exists that there is or ever has been liquid water on Mars, a condition scientists say is essential for life. NASA's robotic rover missions are designed to search for signs of lakes or oceans that might once have covered the planet.
Mars Express is just beginning its science operations. It will settle into its final and proper orbit on Jan. 28. The Beagle 2 lander, which traveled to Mars on the Express, has yet to respond to hails from Earth.
The European orbiter also returned a new high-resolution image of a channel called the Reull Vallis. Scientists suspect it might have been formed long ago by flowing water, but some researchers say other material could have created the many channels on the red planet.
-- The Associated Press contributed to this report
Water on Mars....Water!!! The source of life and proof that live might very well have existed on Mars!!! LIFE!!!
Dude.....
Of course now the question is why there isn't life there now? Did we come from mars after nuking it to oblivion?
:eek6: I'm not going till they find a decent sub shop with good cheesesteaks....
Dude.....
Of course now the question is why there isn't life there now? Did we come from mars after nuking it to oblivion?
Sorry...but it's exciting and a good way to attack people who think that life evolved on earth only and exists nowhere else in the universe..idiots!
Actually...there's a theory that's close to that. Basically that our planet was 'seeded' with life and/or the basics of life when meteor impacts on Mars threw asteroids to the Earth. If so, we're effectivly Martians :)
See, I still have a problem with water being the source of life. It's simply the source of life as we know it ... that doesn't mean that without water they can't find some freaky-arsed aliens ...
Sorry...but it's exciting and a good way to attack people who think that life evolved on earth only and exists nowhere else in the universe..idiots!
Actually...there's a theory that's close to that. Basically that our planet was 'seeded' with life and/or the basics of life when meteor impacts on Mars threw asteroids to the Earth. If so, we're effectivly Martians :)
Bish, are you crazy?! :eek5: If Asscroft reads that he'll have us ALL deported to Syria or something and revoke EVERYONE'S drivers licenses....:hmm:
paul_valaru
1/23/04, 12:59pm
It's exciting to know that the first thing we need to start terreforming the planet is there..water
and maybe there was life there, imgaine they find a fossil record, and life more evolved than single cell organisms is discovered..think of studying the evolution on another planet, see where we differ.
If we find one fossil there, of anything more advanced than bacteria the chances of other intellegent life existing elsewhere goes up astronomically, 2 planets harbouring life in one solar system.....
ok, I'm a geek
water itself is just an ingredient for the primordial soup that creates life..There is a vast convergence of occurences and ingredients that need to be added before we can test it for flavor.... Lets not get too excited...yet. ;)
It's exciting to know that the first thing we need to start terreforming the planet is there..water
and maybe there was life there, imgaine they find a fossil record, and life more evolved than single cell organisms is discovered..think of studying the evolution on another planet, see where we differ.
If we find one fossil there, of anything more advanced than bacteria the chances of other intellegent life existing elsewhere goes up astronomically, 2 planets harbouring life in one solar system.....
ok, I'm a geek
you want geek...talk to me :)
In 2003, scientists discovered the oldest planet, completely changing the theory that planets were late-comers in the creation of the Universe. This planet was formed 7.6 Billion Years ago, while the Earth is only about 4.55 Billion years old.
Imagine... 2 Billion years more time to work on evolution :)
Professur
1/23/04, 01:25pm
Bish, you do know that Earth was nearly destroyed once in it's history, doncha? That's where the moon came from.
drkavnger99
1/23/04, 01:32pm
Bish, you do know that Earth was nearly destroyed once in it's history, doncha? That's where the moon came from.
Actually that was only one occurence of several... this little planet has been beatin to hell and back and survived... I can account at least 3 times not necessarily the planets form but everything else that existed on this planet was nearly completely wiped out.. Take the pole reversal where for a few centuries the there was no magnetic field to protect us from the cosmic radiation, or the dinosaurs being wiped out by a large meteor, or what professur said above. All of these are examples of this planet as it is today being destroyed!
Bish, you do know that Earth was nearly destroyed once in it's history, doncha? That's where the moon came from.
Yeah...and your point is? My point is that life survives given enough chances... water on Mars means that the earth isn't the only lucky one out there with the chances for life to have evolved. Even after nearly being destroyed on several occasions, we've still made it...
The odds of finding life elsewhere have just gotten much MUCH better :)
Professur
1/23/04, 01:52pm
Yeah...and your point is? My point is that life survives given enough chances... water on Mars means that the earth isn't the only lucky one out there with the chances for life to have evolved. Even after nearly being destroyed on several occasions, we've still made it...
The odds of finding life elsewhere have just gotten much MUCH better :)
My point is that another planet the size of mars came flying outta nowhere and slammed into earth. Where'd it come from, and what was it carrying. There's not really any guarantee that life ever did develop on any planet in our solar system. For all we know, the planet was a freaking penal colonial transport. and we're a bloody penal colony for some planet who actually has a clue.
My point is that another planet the size of mars came flying outta nowhere and slammed into earth. Where'd it come from, and what was it carrying. There's not really any guarantee that life ever did develop on any planet in our solar system. For all we know, the planet was a freaking penal colonial transport. and we're a bloody penal colony for some planet who actually has a clue.
There ya go folx...more proof that life exists elsewhere!! Shame that mystery planet probably went zooming off into the sun or became the meteor belt. :p
See, I still have a problem with water being the source of life. It's simply the source of life as we know it ... that doesn't mean that without water they can't find some freaky-arsed aliens ...
Good point Rose. Who says it has to be anything like us?
There ya go folx...more proof that life exists elsewhere!! Shame that mystery planet probably went zooming off into the sun or became the meteor belt. :p
Umm... It stayed here, Bish.
Professur
1/23/04, 01:59pm
But that's the whole issue. They're not just looking for something. They're looking for life like us. Because if there's life like us, that means that Mars could one day support us.
But that's the whole issue. They're not just looking for something. They're looking for life like us. Because if there's life like us, that means that Mars could one day support us.
Yes, I understand that, but what about other life not like us? If it existed, would we even notice?
Umm... It stayed here, Bish.
Not if it was the size of Mars it didn't. Mars ain't that much smaller than Earth... that would've meant nearly doubling our size and seriously fucking up our orbit. A glancing blow, I can see...a direct impact of that size...nah. We're talking large enough to split our core, remove our atmosphere entirely, and send up (like a blue ball) flying into the sun.
Professur
1/23/04, 02:03pm
Probably not.
Professur
1/23/04, 02:05pm
Not if it was the size of Mars it didn't. Mars ain't that much smaller than Earth... that would've meant nearly doubling our size and seriously fucking up our orbit. A glancing blow, I can see...a direct impact of that size...nah. We're talking large enough to split our core, remove our atmosphere entirely, and send up (like a blue ball) flying into the sun.
Um, Bish. Why do you think our Moon is one of the biggest in the entire solar system, and is way out of ratio for a planet/ moon pair?
Why do you think we have such a stron magnetic field? And the moon has none at all?
But that's the whole issue. They're not just looking for something. They're looking for life like us. Because if there's life like us, that means that Mars could one day support us.
Nah...they don't need to find life like us to properly terraform Mars into something that could support us... it'd be worst for that idea if they did.
Can you imagine the uproar if we decided to destroy existing life or the history of life on Mars to implant ourselves!!??!
Professur
1/23/04, 02:09pm
*shakes head*
Terraforming? Reality check, Bish. If we could affect Mars enough to make it habitable, we could more than easily fix what's wrong with Earth, and just stay here.
Can you imagine the uproar if we decided to destroy existing life or the history of life on Mars to implant ourselves!!??!
Those issues never stopped us before...:eek6:
Um, Bish. Why do you think our Moon is one of the biggest in the entire solar system, and is way out of ratio for a planet/ moon pair?
Why do you think we have such a stron magnetic field? And the moon has none at all?
Umh Prof...reread chcr's post. He said that it stayed here...on earth.
It (the planet) may very well be the moon. No proof either way yet.
Professur
1/23/04, 02:11pm
*sigh* Bish, call me at work, willya. I don't feel like typing out the entire thing.
*shakes head*
Terraforming? Reality check, Bish. If we could affect Mars enough to make it habitable, we could more than easily fix what's wrong with Earth, and just stay here.
We've got population issues as is. Why live on one planet when you can live on two, or three or more?
Keep growing, keep exploring, keep moving.
Terraforming is far away from our grasp now...but that's now. How else are we going to make Mars able to 'support us' without terraforming it? Adding an atmosphere, liquid water, soil that can support plant life are necessary... it's not like we can support human life on Mars for extended persiods of time without being able to live there, which means not having to import everything...food, air, water etc...
For anything over 6months to a year, for anything over about a dozen or so people, we'd have to terraform :)
Professur
1/23/04, 02:17pm
How do you propose to generate an atmosphere on a planet with no magnetic field?
How do you propose to generate an atmosphere on a planet with no magnetic field?
A new study of the Martian atmosphere has added strength to a popular theory of why there is so much carbon dioxide in the red planet's air. Researchers have detected hydrogen molecules in the atmosphere, which had been predicted but not found for decades.
Carbon dioxide makes up about 95 percent of Mars' very thin atmosphere, roughly nine times more overall than contained in Earth's much thicker atmosphere. Laboratory work showed that the Sun's energy should split this carbon dioxide into its components -- carbon monoxide and oxygen.
There is one already...it's thin...you promote the creation of Greenhouse gasses, free up frozen gasses, start up a few volcanos for outgassing, etc...
source (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_water_011129.html)Mars Has Crustal, Complex Magnetic Field
EOS, Volume 78, Number 40, p. 429
October 7, 1997
Scientists working on the Mars Global Surveyor project announced last week that new satellite evidence indicates that the magnetic field around Mars is most likely of crustal rather than dynamo origin. They also say that the field is much stronger than previously anticipated and that it could greatly vary in strength in different locations on the planet.
“Based on evidence collected over several orbits, we now have strong evidence that the field is of crustal origin,” says Mario Acuna, an astrophysicist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center who is the principal investigator on the magnetometer and electron reflectometer instruments on the satellite. The new findings follow the satellite’s dramatic detection on September 15 of the outer-most boundary of Mars’ magnetic field — or bow shock — shortly after the Surveyor began in elliptical orbit around the planet source (http://solid_earth.ou.edu/readings/mars_mag_field.html)
Existing magnetic field, existing atmosphere :)
Professur
1/23/04, 02:28pm
And neither strong enough to be of any use.
And neither strong enough to be of any use.
...yet.
Lots of carbon dioxide though...very nice start. More than here on earth... wow!
I can't help thinking about the potential of terraforming Mars and Venus...then reality sets in and I can't help thinking about the 70% failure rate for Mars probes and satellites. Then I have another beer and all is well again :):drink:
Professur
1/23/04, 04:33pm
...yet.
Planning on strengthing a planetary magnetic field, are ya?
*folds arms and settles back to watch.
Lots of carbon dioxide though...very nice start. More than here on earth... wow!
Really?
Mars has a thin atmosphere. It contains just one hundredth the amount of gas found in the Earth's atmosphere. It is largely carbon dioxide (95.3%) with nitrogen (2.7%) and smaller amounts of other gases including argon and oxygen. The very low levels of oxygen mean there is no ozone layer around Mars to protect it from the Sun's ultraviolet rays. With no protective screen, life can not survive on the surface.
Source (http://www.bnsc.gov.uk/index.cfm?pid=1057)
Or maybe
Climate History:Atmosphere: Current Martian Atmospheric Data
Surface atmospheric pressure: ~6.1 mb (about 1/150th that of Earth's)
Surface gas density: ~0.020 kg/m3
Atmospheric scale height: 11.1 km
Average temperature: ~210 K (-63 degrees Celsius)
Wind speeds: 2-7 m/s (summer), 5-10 m/s (fall), 17-30 m/s (dust storm)
Composition:
Major gases (percentage by moles): Carbon Dioxide (CO2) - 95.32%
Nitrogen (N2) - 2.7%
Argon (Ar) - 1.6%
Oxygen (O2) - 0.13%
Carbon Monoxide (CO) - 0.08%
Minor (parts per million): Water (H2O) - 210
Nitrogen Oxide (NO) - 100
Neon (Ne) - 2.5
Hydrogen-Deuterium-Oxygen (HDO) - 0.85
Krypton (Kr) - 0.3
Xenon (Xe) - 0.08
Source (http://calspace.ucsd.edu/marsnow/library/science/climate_history/general_circulation_of_the_atmosphere1.html)
Hmmm. 1/150th of earth's atmosphere, on a planet half our size. Not quite fo impressive, is it?
Hmmm. 1/150th of earth's atmosphere, on a planet half our size. Not quite fo impressive, is it?
Carbon dioxide makes up about 95 percent of Mars' very thin atmosphere, roughly nine times more overall than contained in Earth's much thicker atmosphere. Laboratory work showed that the Sun's energy should split this carbon dioxide into its components -- carbon monoxide and oxygen
More Carbon Dioxide on Mars than on Earth...relativly easy to split up too.
I think that I've mentioned outgassing too...and greenhouse gasses...
Frozen water...hydrogen and Oxygen
Gasses trapped in the soil
Time consuming, of course, but hardly impossible.
Professur
1/23/04, 04:52pm
Splitting all the CO2 on Mars won't amount to a hill of beans. You'll still only have 6 mB of pressure. The standard atmospheric pressure at the Earth's surface is 1013.25 millibars.
Don't you get it? You'd have to vaporize half the planet just to get any pressure enough to not need pressure suits. And even then, you don't have a magnetic field to protect it, so you're gonna loose in all in a few 100 years.
The Mars books were great reading, Dude. But that's all they were. You'd have to crash every known comet into it, just for starters.
and we're a bloody penal colony for some planet who actually has a clue.
Well, look at it this way: That's how Australia started off too.
Well, look at it this way: That's how Australia started off too.
Yeah, and look at 'em now!!!!! :D
Splitting all the CO2 on Mars won't amount to a hill of beans. You'll still only have 6 mB of pressure. The standard atmospheric pressure at the Earth's surface is 1013.25 millibars.
Don't you get it? You'd have to vaporize half the planet just to get any pressure enough to not need pressure suits. And even then, you don't have a magnetic field to protect it, so you're gonna loose in all in a few 100 years.
The Mars books were great reading, Dude. But that's all they were. You'd have to crash every known comet into it, just for starters.
Thanks Prof. Why do so many people not understand that you can't create elements from nothing?
Thanks Prof. Why do so many people not understand that you can't create elements from nothing?I guess it's mainly the way we understand the US money supply. It works that way.
I guess it's mainly the way we understand the US money supply. It works that way.:grinyes:
Bish, are you crazy?! :eek5: If Asscroft reads that he'll have us ALL deported to Syria or something and revoke EVERYONE'S drivers licenses....:hmm:
Not me ;)
Can you imagine the uproar if we decided to destroy existing life or the history of life on Mars to implant ourselves!!??!
Just to make Squiggys point, so what? It's not like we're gonna send an archeological expidition there. We'll get info as we go.
...yet.
Lots of carbon dioxide though...very nice start. More than here on earth... wow!
I can't help thinking about the potential of terraforming Mars and Venus...then reality sets in and I can't help thinking about the 70% failure rate for Mars probes and satellites. Then I have another beer and all is well again :):drink:
Not enough gravity, Bish. It's a pie in the sky, half baked notion by some fringe scientists who have no understanding of the physics involved. We would always be living in domes.
Did Prof explain the moon thing?
Thulsa Doom
1/24/04, 12:27am
wait.. who says the point of going there is to terraform the place? what happened to the pure pursuit of science? earthlings will eventually become martians (and alpha centurians and all sorts of stuff) but thats way down the road. our focus should be "whats out there". the rest of the stuff will follow from that. personally I want a sterile probe dropped into the oceans of europa.
wait.. who says the point of going there is to terraform the place? what happened to the pure pursuit of science? earthlings will eventually become martians (and alpha centurians and all sorts of stuff) but thats way down the road. our focus should be "whats out there". the rest of the stuff will follow from that. personally I want a sterile probe dropped into the oceans of europa.
No planets around Alpha Centauri. :)
Thulsa Doom
1/24/04, 08:30pm
No planets around Alpha Centauri. :)
well it sounds a lot sexier then becoming HR 4796'ns.
wait.. who says the point of going there is to terraform the place? what happened to the pure pursuit of science? earthlings will eventually become martians (and alpha centurians and all sorts of stuff) but thats way down the road. our focus should be "whats out there". the rest of the stuff will follow from that. personally I want a sterile probe dropped into the oceans of europa.
I agree completely. About Europa too. It has quickly become the most likely place to find extraterrestrial life in our solar system. Under the frozen surface of Europa may lie vast, carbon rich oceans, kept above freezing by heat from its interior, generated by tidal friction from nearby Jupiter. Unfortunately the whole freaking moon is covered in a thick layer of ice, and we can't know for certain. I would love to see a probe sent to penetrate that ice and see what lies beneath.
If we are looking for life today, Europa is the place to look. If we are looking for evidence of life in the past, we may find it on Mars. Mars *did* have a sufficient atmosphere and magnetic field to support liquid water about 4 billion years ago....a little early for life to evolve perhaps. If we are looking to colonize, Mars and the moon are the closest and most hospitable, relatively speaking.
Just to make Squiggys point, so what? It's not like we're gonna send an archeological expidition there. We'll get info as we go.
If there was life on Mars, Archaologists are exactly the kind of people that you would want to send up there...right along with Geologists, Chemists and Phycists. You don't want remains damaged by people who havn't the slightest idea how to excavate a site and you certainly don't want to change the surrounding atmosphere if it means damaging evidence of prior life on Mars.
Imagine...following the evolution of a completely seperate lifeform. Just the differences between our bacterial evolution and the Martian one (even if it's just from single-celled amoeba to multi-celled bacterium) would be a boon of knowledge!!!
If you can't find proof of any previous life on Mars, then you can go ahead and start your strip-mining. If you do find signs of life...you'd better watch out where you're strip-mining. You're likely to piss-off Greenpeace (or in this case Redpeace) if you don't :)
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