View Full Version : Guarding the borders is bad
so says the California teachers union membership
A California high school student who penned an article for his school paper calling for a crackdown on illegal immigration says he has constantly been harassed ever since and the faculty there ignore his pleas, reports the Washington Times.
Tim Bueler, founder of the Rancho Cotate High School’s new Conservative Club, says he has been called a racist and a Nazi for his views. Some teachers have started a public campaign to have his club disbanded and stood by while Hispanic students threatened and harassed him.
"The teacher told him, 'When you say things like that, you've got to expect that things like this are going to happen,’" said Tim’s father, Dennis Bueler.
One teacher called his group "a bunch of bigots" and another called on students to "take a stand against the neoconservative wing-nuts who call themselves Americans."
His project reflects the freedom of speech...their reaction (hispanic students) represent freedom of speech...
here's the thing though... who the hell leaked a private document *the essay given in for marking to the teacher* to the public *the student body at large* ?
I think that the person who released this private document should have their post withdrawn. Point finale.
If you're so proud of acting like a nazi, don't cry when you're called one...:shrug:
Gato_Solo
1/19/04, 05:18pm
If you're so proud of acting like a nazi, don't cry when you're called one...:shrug:
So being against illegal immigration makes one a Nazi? Not to make light of the entire issue, but isn't that a little harsh, Squiggy?
Not really...Just a statement of my impression of the available info. I've not read the aticle, but sans the link, I assume there were reasons given for the reaction he has recieved. I'm not judging what he said because I don't know what he said. I'm simply stating that to assume a position is to assume a position. Live with it if you believe in yourself. :shrug:
Gato_Solo
1/19/04, 05:32pm
Not really...Just a statement of my impression of the available info. I've not read the aticle, but sans the link, I assume there were reasons given for the reaction he has recieved. I'm not judging what he said because I don't know what he said. I'm simply stating that to assume a position is to assume a position. Live with it if you believe in yourself. :shrug:
Perhaps if Gonz would post the link we could be better informed...
A.B.Normal
1/19/04, 05:35pm
here's the thing though... who the hell leaked a private document *the essay given in for marking to the teacher* to the public *the student body at large* ?
"an article for his school paper"
Gotta love the internet and Vivisimo (http://vivisimo.com/)
Link (http://www.tonguetied.us/archives/000912.php) - direct from Gonz (Tongue-tied)
Link (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031229-105705-1963r.htm) - where Gonz's link took the original story from (Washington Post)
Sounds like his mouth wrote a check that his ass can't cash...Somewhat understandable in youth.
Gato_Solo
1/19/04, 05:56pm
Sounds like his mouth wrote a check that his ass can't cash...Somewhat understandable in youth.
True...but shouldn't the "adults" who witness the alleged threats actually do something? Outside of school grounds, he's on his own, but, on school property, he's supposed to be treated like all other students, no matter how much his viewpoint is disliked by the faculty.
If it was one-on-one, that's one thing, but when you are threatened by a group, that's another.
Still lacking the actual content of his statements so its a hard call...If he attacked a 'group', hes gonna be counter attacked by a 'group'. I have to believe his statements went beyond the defendable for the teachers to offer opposition. Sounds like an ugly situation, though.....
Gato_Solo
1/19/04, 06:21pm
Still lacking the actual content of his statements so its a hard call...If he attacked a 'group', hes gonna be counter attacked by a 'group'. I have to believe his statements went beyond the defendable for the teachers to offer opposition. Sounds like an ugly situation, though.....
I think he pissed the teachers off is what he did. It's bad enough when you make yourself the target of bullies, but to get on the bad side of your only defense as well leads exactly to this type of situation.
I think he pissed the teachers off is what he did. It's bad enough when you make yourself the target of bullies, but to get on the bad side of your only defense as well leads exactly to this type of situation.
Speaking from experience, you only have to piss off one. :shrug:
drkavnger99
1/19/04, 10:06pm
This kid didn't realize what kind of crap he stepped into. It wasn't very smart to say anything about illegal immigration in a state of which has a very large illegal immigrant base and support. No offence to anybody from california but it's not fair for the people who go through the legal and proper channels to come over here legally and have someone who comes over here intending to break the laws (and yes they do because working and living here is illegal unless your a citizen or a visa holder). Then to add insult to injury they in alot of cases give illegals the same rights as someone who has come here legally so what is anyones motivation to come legally! Sorry about the rant but as we of the US all know we have one f*cked up immigration system!
This kid should get protection in the school also because if something happens to him in school expect to hear about a nice multi million dollar lawsuit against the school!
A.B.Normal
1/19/04, 10:14pm
It probably wasn't the first time he made such statements ,but since we are only getting limited info its impossible to chose sides.
"They've made all these sweeping statements about liberal teachers warping the curriculum, but as a science teacher, I'd like to see some evidence," said Mr. Alton, who co-authored the letter.
Eariler in the story:
In a parody of the newsletter, biology teacher Mark Alton called on students to "take a stand against the neoconservative wing-nuts who call themselves Americans."
Am I the only one who sees the evidence in what I quoted?
I'd personally like to read the article the kid wrote to see what's the matter.
A.B.Normal
1/20/04, 01:28am
Found this (http://home.houston.rr.com/skeptical/) interesting
Clearly enjoying the spotlight, Bueler, a wiry junior of medium height with close-cropped brown hair, waved a copy of talk-radio host Michael Savage's latest book, The Enemy Within. Savage, aware of the national controversy the club has generated, donated 50 copies of his tome lambasting public education in America to the club, said Bueler, who one day hopes to be a talk-radio host himself.
"You cannot put things in black and white like that," insisted Richard Neffson, a history teacher standing in the back of the room who supports the club's right to exist but whose patience appeared to be wearing thin. "That's why I'm concerned about the tone of this club's rhetoric."
An incredulous look crossed Bueler's face, as if he couldn't believe he'd been punked on his own turf.
"He's getting pissed off because he's getting called out," whispered Danika O'Leary, one of about 20 students sitting on the left side of the room in silent protest.
freako104
1/20/04, 03:11am
he said things that naturally would spark a reaction but that is no reason for teachers to look the other way. he is still a student at that school
freako104
1/20/04, 03:12am
scary thing is my HS had a guidance counselor named Mr.Alton as well but he was cool and he cared about the kids
A.B.Normal
1/20/04, 04:58am
he said things that naturally would spark a reaction but that is no reason for teachers to look the other way. he is still a student at that school
Seems more like a Jerry Springer/Howard Stern/Rush Limbaugh all rolled into one, that is craving attention and would stir something up even if the teachers were helping him.This isn't the first instance of showboating and won't be the last ,after all he wants his own radioshow and we know there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Tim said he's been threatened at least three times by Hispanic students who call him "white boy" and "racist."
Good ol' hypocrites.
freako104
1/20/04, 12:13pm
Seems more like a Jerry Springer/Howard Stern/Rush Limbaugh all rolled into one, that is craving attention and would stir something up even if the teachers were helping him.This isn't the first instance of showboating and won't be the last ,after all he wants his own radioshow and we know there is no such thing as bad publicity.
it does but that doesnt justify him beating assaulted
says he has been called a racist and a Nazi for his views.
If you're so proud of acting like a nazi, don't cry when you're called one...:shrug:
Jesus H Christ, even our own adults are calling him a fucking nazi :rolleyes:
MrB, Fox News was my source
A.B.Normal
1/21/04, 01:00am
it does but that doesnt justify him beating assaulted
He was verbally assaulted ,not physically.
freako104
1/21/04, 01:50am
either way it is assault it shoudlnt happen in school
A.B.Normal
1/21/04, 02:39am
either way it is assault it shoudlnt happen in school
But him calling the Teachers "traitors" is okay?
freako104
1/21/04, 02:53am
no it is not. it shows disrespect although he can say that they werent doing their jobs. but not traitors. there is a world of a difference there.
Jesus H Christ
Love that movie :D
A.B.Normal
1/21/04, 07:38am
no it is not. it shows disrespect although he can say that they werent doing their jobs. but not traitors. there is a world of a difference there.
So what we have is :
a)Students blocking his way,and a teacher telling him to use the backdoor to avoid them (I don't see this as threatening or neglectful on the teachers part)
b)Teacher calling him a Nazi after he called the Teachers traitors and accused them of a Liberal Conspiracy.(Tit for Tat ,although the teacher should have known better)
c)One boy said he was going to "find someone" to beat up Tim. (I mean really ,who didn't say there friend would beat someone up for them in highschool)
d) Earlier, he said he was eating lunch in a classroom when about seven Hispanic students surrounded him.(and then what?? If they said or did anything to Tim this info would have been added ,it wasn't so nothing must have happened?)
Tim seems to be a bright boy(he started the Conservative Club and publishes the Club paper{still a school paper though})who knew his actions would inflame(he refused to submit it prior to it being published in the newsletter)Yet he is more than willing to paint himself the victim .If it was just this one incident then peoples reactions to it are extreme ,but Tim seems to try an cause reaction and not accept responsibility for his actions.And as for his right to freedom of speech ,he's in Highschool it doesn't apply ,anymore than the "right to bear arms " means he could walk into the school carrying a gun even if he has a legal right to carry it on the street.
I also like the inclusion of "seeks to promote "the pillars of the Bible, patriotism and conservative beliefs" and "With about 50 members, the club has hosted speakers from the Eagle Forum and National Rifle Association. " .This not what he is being confronted by his fellow students for yet they try and make it part of the issue.
Fact is he is a egocentric 17yr old (aren't they all)
freako104
1/21/04, 09:41am
that first part does show that at least one teacher tried to do the right thing and it would have been his fault not to take the advice but noone should have called him a nazi on school grounds as he had already said some inflamitory things which no doubt would have cause such a reaction(which he wanted). Off school grounds would be different. the Hispanic students that surrounded him were even if they didnt say anything threatning him. if you are surrounded by a group like that wouldnt you feel they are threatning you? not saying I agree with him but he did write the paper and he should have his say and his opinion.
Gato_Solo
1/21/04, 05:04pm
Read this (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109026,00.html), and then comment on this whole topic...
A.B.Normal
1/21/04, 06:00pm
if you are surrounded by a group like that wouldnt you feel they are threatning you?
Thats the thing ,I've tried to put myself in his position ,remembering back to HS.I went to a smaller school than he does and wasn't an overly popular student ,but still always had friends around (before & after school ,between classes and at lunch).He has a group of 50 like minded students he could be hanging out with,yet Tim seems to find himself wandering the halls and eating lunch by himself ,even though he knows people are against him.This doesn't sound like someone who is afraid ,more like someone who is trying to "force" an issue or allow trouble and still be the victim.
Thats pretty much how I'm seeing it at this point too, AB....
Maybe they're friends like the ones I had in high school. Let's just say I only keep in contact with one of them now.
freako104
1/21/04, 09:47pm
Thats the thing ,I've tried to put myself in his position ,remembering back to HS.I went to a smaller school than he does and wasn't an overly popular student ,but still always had friends around (before & after school ,between classes and at lunch).He has a group of 50 like minded students he could be hanging out with,yet Tim seems to find himself wandering the halls and eating lunch by himself ,even though he knows people are against him.This doesn't sound like someone who is afraid ,more like someone who is trying to "force" an issue or allow trouble and still be the victim.
I was in your position in HS as well I had my friends(some of which including teachers I still talk to). You maybe right he maybe manipulating that situation but as I have said this is something that the school should not allow him to be assaulted but the same goes to him.
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